Cultivated Disinterest in Professional Sports • Hacker News Board

Re: Cultivated Disinterest in Professional Sports

#171

Post by quanticle » Fri, Jan 30, 2015, 9:51 PM UTC

toolz wrote: post #108

lotharbot wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> he is saying in effect "What you love is obtuse and low brow" More than that, he is in effect saying "there is no depth to this thing" (which he hasn't studied in depth enough to know). Which is both rude and arrogant. It's one thing to say you don't understand a thing and aren't interested in it, and then politely discuss things you are (mutually) interested in. It's quite another to distill something you don't un…

Depth can have a real defined meaning, though. If you're in the context of discovering a process that will make electricity cheaper and cleaner, that is useful to everyone around the world in some way and then to have someone overshadow that achievement or ignore it entirely because 'the game' is on, is ridiculous. I live in the south east where when a college football coach has a problem with the university presiden…

>NFL players go bankrupt shortly after their career of being paid far more than will reflect their contribution to the future of mankind.

Isn't that supposed to be because of the mental illness brought on by the repeated concussions that players suffer, which causes physical injury to the brain? I'm not sure how you can blame the players for that.

Re: Cultivated Disinterest in Professional Sports

#172

Post by Glyptodon » Fri, Jan 30, 2015, 9:52 PM UTC

solson wrote: post #20

When you show overt contempt for sports you are showing contempt for most everybody and that is problem with your social skills. It's called being a snob. The disdain for working class culture among academics was part of the reason I choose not to pursue a formal higher education. I suspect this overt snootiness keeps many gifted working class kids from participating in higher education. I grew up working class and w…

I love playing sports and always have. But I have major issues with categorizing everyone who has issues with them as elitist.

Some of us dislike them because they're destructive to society. I'm sure I'm not the only one who went to a high school where athletics were more important than academics, and not going to the football game was worth a couple nitpicked points off on your chemistry quiz or some teacher who became a teacher solely to coach had you spend their class taking notes from a text book every day while they jawed around with other coaches in the back room.

I feel like sports culture deprives lots of regular public high school students of an education, and I don't think it's elitist at all to dislike professional sports for their contribution to this mess.

I love sports, but every time I watch or support them I feel like I'm destroying civil society and undermining democracy and helping to destroy the last vestiges of effective public education.

And I'm not elite or upper class.

Re: Cultivated Disinterest in Professional Sports

#173

Post by Retra » Fri, Jan 30, 2015, 9:52 PM UTC

nitrogen wrote: post #105

bglazer wrote: post #84

I'm not sure how I feel about this article. On the one hand, it had a weird highbrow tone. It reads a bit like an ivory tower academic discovering what "the poors" are up to. Some choice quotes: "Albert suggested that sports reflect the go-to topic for small talk and building rapport across class and context" "Sports are popular because people, in general, find them fun to watch". No shit! Lots of people like sports.…

Disdain for sports is pointless social signalling that is ultimately divisive. So is participation in sports. People don't dislike sports because they were born that way; they dislike them because they didn't like the effect they had on e.g. their high school or college.

Some people want to cheer for academic bookish stuffiness and boo the low-brow jockiness of field games. If that isn't what sports is all about, then what is it about?

Re: Cultivated Disinterest in Professional Sports

#174

Post by xxxyy » Fri, Jan 30, 2015, 9:53 PM UTC

Tenhundfeld wrote: post #143

Meh, this is not a problem that needs addressing. When people say they "don't like sports," what they often mean is that they don't follow any teams. I played baseball growing up, still play tennis and row. I "understand" the rules of most sports – except cricket but c'mon. I can have a good time drinking a pint with friends and listening to them discuss sports. In fact, my ignorance often leads to great conversation…

Often it just means they don't follow any teams, but not always. I, for instance, don't care for any sports at all. I'm not even interested in learning the rules, unless I play the sport myself. Same goes for some of my friends.

Re: Cultivated Disinterest in Professional Sports

#175

Post by kyllo » Fri, Jan 30, 2015, 9:53 PM UTC

metellus wrote: post #156

civilian wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The amount of commercials required to watch a game of football is intrinsically bad. The tax exempt status of the NFL is intrinsically bad.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/taxes/nflexempt.asp Specifically, "Claims that the NFL is using a tax exemption to avoid paying the tax due on these revenues are simply misinformed. The confusion arises from the fact that there is one small part of the NFL, unrelated to all this business activity, that is tax-exempt: the NFL League Office. The league office is the administrative and organizational arm of the NFL and d…

The fact that NFL teams get taxpayers to foot the bill for new stadium construction and then the team retains the facility as private property, now that is what I have a problem with. Those facilities are bought with public money and should be public parks.

Re: Cultivated Disinterest in Professional Sports

#176

Post by toolz » Fri, Jan 30, 2015, 9:53 PM UTC

RobAtticus wrote: post #161

toolz wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sports are not intrinsically bad? Let's pretend a world without sports for a second. What do you see? I see a world where scientists and philanthropists are common household names. Where kids hero's are astronauts and firemen. I see a world where when someone makes a couple hundred million a year, they don't go immediately bankrupt after retiring because their industry wasn't intrinsically broken. That healthy panhan…

Maybe that's the case if you also got rid of the other professions that make up celebrities: musicians, actors/actresses, etc. I doubt removing just sports would suddenly make scientists/philanthropists household names. You'd essentially have to get rid of all forms of entertainment to do that, which seems a bit ridiculous. Besides, many athletes ARE philanthropists, who work hard to give back to their communities. A…

> Focus on the athletes who do things the right way: work hard, take care of themselves physically and financially

In many sports this in non-existent. The only people not taking performance enhancing drugs are the ones not getting caught. When billions of dollars are involved it's more than just a gentle suggestion that these professionals take drugs or enhancement.

And besides, what makes you a better arbiter of what is useful to society?

Nothing. I'm not commenting on something as fickle as society, I'm commenting on the future of our species, to which I can say with great confidence that education and ingenuity will affect peoples lives infinitely longer than the contributions of any sport. The fact that some of these professional athletes contribute money is a moot point when we're discussing whether they should exist. Those resources would still exist and the chances they would be distributed to a cause that would have lasting impact would likely increase.

In fact, some of those athletes would contribute more than just money. They may be the very person who makes a mark on the history of mankind.

Re: Cultivated Disinterest in Professional Sports

#177

Post by JoeAltmaier » Fri, Jan 30, 2015, 9:54 PM UTC

BurgerEarmuffs wrote: post #83

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about, you've done it all your life, so your whining when it happens to you comes off as hypocritical? What a wonderful message...

> you've done it all your life Me personally? When did I do it?

SOrry, that should have been in quotes.

Re: Cultivated Disinterest in Professional Sports

#178

Post by soylentcola » Fri, Jan 30, 2015, 9:54 PM UTC

bglazer wrote: post #84

I'm not sure how I feel about this article. On the one hand, it had a weird highbrow tone. It reads a bit like an ivory tower academic discovering what "the poors" are up to. Some choice quotes: "Albert suggested that sports reflect the go-to topic for small talk and building rapport across class and context" "Sports are popular because people, in general, find them fun to watch". No shit! Lots of people like sports.…

The "weird" tone may just be a result of the author writing in a more familiar language. If the author was already part of an academic subculture, it would make sense that this would show up in the language he is most fluent in.

It can come off as incongruous (if only because we're not used to an academic making an honest attempt to analyze his observations on sport fans, academics, and a common source of friction between the two cultures).

I could easily imagine the other way around - a stereotypical sports guy talking about academic topics in jock lingo - being exaggerated in an SNL skit or something. The way people "code switch" and just use the language of different subgroups is one of those things we're mostly familiar with and accept...even if we can see how it's a weird bit of human behavior. Stuff like that can make for either great offense or great comedy (sometimes both).

For my part, I was always drawn to more geeky/intellectual interests as a kid because I was scrawny and weird so the sports guys weren't welcoming. As I got older, being mostly unfamiliar with pro sports made it awkward when coworkers realized I was the only one who had no idea what they were talking about. I still am not a huge fan of pro sports (if only for the insane amount of hype and greed surrounding them) but I realized a while ago that a lot of my hostility toward "jock stuff" came mostly from insecurity. Nowadays I do enjoy watching football when my home team is playing. I own a couple of team T-shirts and maybe catch a baseball game in the summer or watch a few football games at the bar if the home team is playing. A big part of it was making some friends who were into computers and music and art and reading who also liked pro sports and weren't dicks about my lack of knowledge. As the author says, the social aspect is what makes it enjoyable for a lot of people and when that was bad, my thoughts on sports were negative. When my social interactions around sports became enjoyable, my general thoughts on sports became more positive.

Re: Cultivated Disinterest in Professional Sports

#179

Post by tjradcliffe » Fri, Jan 30, 2015, 9:54 PM UTC

rinon wrote: post #126

timr wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"When you show overt contempt for sports you are showing contempt for most everybody and that is problem with your social skills." That's nice. What other corporate products must I consume in order to be a validated member of your social caste? How about this: "when you show overt contempt for fast food, you are showing contempt for most everybody, and that is a problem with your social skills." If I don't eat at McD…

Having a valid reason why some activity is intrinsically bad (e.g. fast food) is very different from disliking such activities because they are "beneath" you. Sports are widely loved and not intrinsically bad. (I'd even argue that fast food itself is not intrinsically bad, but that's a different discussion) However, even expressing contempt for intrinsically bad activities can be interpreted as offensive and hostile.…

> Sports are widely loved and not intrinsically bad.

Professional sports are also incredibly problematic in multiple ways. One can argue against those issues--from the corrupting influence of money to the homophobia (now finally breaking down just a little bit) to the willingness to use up players to the normalization of violence (in hockey, in particular). In the same way, one can argue that fast food has virtues that make up for its supposed "intrinsic badness" (which I don't see at all: nothing is "intrinsically" good or bad... it depends on how it is used for what for.)

> However, even expressing contempt for intrinsically bad activities can be interpreted as offensive and hostile.

You say that like it's a bad thing. Having strong and forthrightly held tastes and opinions is a virtue and a delight.

When I see the vast amount of money and time that is dedicated to professional sports it makes me despair of humanity. Do I want to hang around people who spend a good part of their lives on such activities? I do not. This is not a problem with my social skills.

It would be a problem with my social skills if I did hang around with them and bitched about it. But saying, "I'm glad you're having fun, but I think it's completely crazy to spend so much time and money on the activity of being a fan" is not.

And just to be clear: no one has ever been shy about telling me how far beneath contempt I am for caring more about science, art and poetry than sports. So perhaps problems with social skills exist outside of stereotyped groups that it is currently fashionable to berate regarding them.

Re: Cultivated Disinterest in Professional Sports

#180

Post by psychometry » Fri, Jan 30, 2015, 9:54 PM UTC

toolz wrote: post #117

timr wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"When you show overt contempt for sports you are showing contempt for most everybody and that is problem with your social skills." That's nice. What other corporate products must I consume in order to be a validated member of your social caste? How about this: "when you show overt contempt for fast food, you are showing contempt for most everybody, and that is a problem with your social skills." If I don't eat at McD…

Exactly. Sports aren't a healthy part of society. They are games mean to occupy the less curious people of our culture so they don't get bored and dissatisfied with their existence. There is nothing healthy about sports culture. The socialization is entirely tribal and the impact on humanities future is non-existent. Imagine if we game all our attention and praise to teachers and all of our money to successful charit…

You sound like the type of insufferable bore this article is expressly written for; it's a shame you seem not to have read it. No doubt you take great pleasure in some other form of entertainment that "does nothing for anyone".