Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

AWS to bare metal two years later: Answering your questions about leaving AWS

oneuptime.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

221–230 of 513 posts

Re: AWS to bare metal two years later: Answering your questions about leaving AWS

#221

Post by torginus »

everfrustrated wrote: post #152
embedding-shape wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> they offered a handful of high-value services, all at great prices, making them cost-competitive with bare metal but much easier That was never the case for AWS, the point was never "We're cheap" but "We let you scale faster for a premium". I first came across cloud services around 2010-2011 I think, when the company I worked at at the time started growing and we needed something better than shared hosting. AWS was…

I'd agree that AWS never sold on being cheaper, but there is one particular way AWS could be cheaper and that is their approach to billing-by-the-unit with no fixed costs or minimum charges. Being able to start small from a $1/mth bill without any fixed cost overheads is incredibly powerful for small startups. If I wanted to store bytes in a DC it would cost $10k/mth by the time I was paying colo/ servers/ disks befo…

But if AWS didn't have that anti-competitive data transfer fee that gets waived if your traffic goes to an internal server, why would you choose S3 vs a white-label storage vendor's similar offering?

Re: AWS to bare metal two years later: Answering your questions about leaving AWS

#222

Post by torginus »

__alexs wrote: post #86
cs702 wrote: post #15

In the early days of cloud service providers, they offered a handful of high-value services, all at great prices, making them cost-competitive with bare metal but much easier. That was then . Things today are different. As cloud service providers have grown to become dominant, they now offer a vast, complicated tangle of services, microservices, control panels, etc., at prices that can spiral out of control if you ar…

AFAICT no AWS service has ever had a price increase. This is nonsense.

Considering you get exponentially more compute/hardware for the same money every 2 years or so, they haven't been getting that much cheaper.

Re: AWS to bare metal two years later: Answering your questions about leaving AWS

#223

Post by 1oooqooq »

papichulo2023 wrote: post #120
spwa4 wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A high availability MySQL server on AWS is about the same difficulty as on your own kubernetes instance (I've got a play one on one of those $100 N100 machines, got one with 16G mem). Then: helm repo add mariadb-operator https://mariadb-operator.github.io/mariadb-operator helm install mariadb-operator mariadb-operator/mariadb-operator And then you can just provision MariaDB "kind", ie. you kubectl apply with somethin…

Dont you need ECC in your db nodes?

amazing how nobody even know about ECC these days.

see so many series B+ companies running DB and storage without a care in the world.

Re: AWS to bare metal two years later: Answering your questions about leaving AWS

#224

Post by marcosdumay »

vb-8448 wrote: post #106
calgoo wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, when something breaks, you are responsible. If you put it in AWS like everyone else and it breaks, then its their problem not yours. We will still implement workarounds and fixes when it happens, but we are not responsible. Basic enterprise rules these days is to always pay someone else to be responsible.

Actually nothing new here, this was the same in the pre-cloud era where everyone in enterprises prefer big names(ibm, microsoft, oracle, ecc) to pass the responsibility to them in case of failures ... aka "nobody get fired because of buying IBM"

And the big name companies always refuse to take responsibility, and have worse reliability metrics than the lean alternatives...

but somehow that is never a problem.

Re: AWS to bare metal two years later: Answering your questions about leaving AWS

#225

Post by 1oooqooq »

spwa4 wrote: post #122
Ensorceled wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't. That's the use case FOR AWS/GCP. Once the differential between having a in-house team and the AWS premium becomes positive is when you make the switch. A lot of the discussion here is that the cost of the in-house team is less than people think. For instance: at a former gig, we used a service in the EU that handled weekends, holidays and night time issues and escalated to our team as needed. It was pretty…

There is also the factor that the idea that you don't need administrators for AWS is bullshit. Cool idea, bro. Go to your favorite jobs portal. Search for "devops" ... 1000s of jobs. I click on the first link. Well, well, they have a whole team doing "devops administration" on AWS and require extra people. So not having the money for an in-house team ... no AWS for you. I've worked for 2 large-ish firms in the past 3…

Exactly. this is the margin aws trives from.

they sell "you don't need a team"... which is true om your prototype and mvp phase. and you know when you grow you will have an ops team and maybe move out.

but in the very long middle time... you will be supporting clients and sla etc, and will end up paying both aws AND an ops team without even realizing.

Re: AWS to bare metal two years later: Answering your questions about leaving AWS

#226

Post by zer00eyz »

marcosdumay wrote: post #215
PenguinCoder wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm proudly 100% on prem Linux sys admin. There are not openings for my skills and they do not pay as well as whatever cloud hotness is "needed".

Nobody is hiring generalists nowadays. At the same time, the incredible complexity of the software infrastructure is making specialists more and more useless. To the point that almost every successful specialist out there is just some disguised generalist that decided to focus their presentation in a single area.

> Nobody is hiring generalists nowadays.

What?

I throw up in my mouth every time I see "full stack" in a job listing.

We got rid of roles... DBA's, QA teams, Sysadmins, then front and back end. Full Stack is the "webmaster" of the modern era. It might mean front and back end, it might mean sysadmin and DBA as well.

Re: AWS to bare metal two years later: Answering your questions about leaving AWS

#227

Post by torginus »

nik736 wrote: post #9

It's an interesting article, thanks for that. What people forget about the OVH or Hetzner comparison is that for those entry servers they are known for, think the Advance line with OVH or AX with Hetzner. Those boxes come with some drawbacks. The OVH Advance line for example comes without ECC memory, in a server, that might host databases. It's a disaster waiting to happen. There is no option to add ECC memory with t…

I never understood the draw of 'server-grade hardware'. Consumer hardware fails rarely enough that you could 2x your infra and still be paying less.

Re: AWS to bare metal two years later: Answering your questions about leaving AWS

#228

Post by hedora »

Reason to use AWS from the article:

> You do not have the appetite to build a platform team comfortable with Kubernetes, Ceph, observability, and incident response.

Has work been using AWS wrong? Other than Ceph, all those things add up to onerous half time jobs for rotating software engineers.

Before gp3 came out, working around EBS price/performance terribleness was also on the list.

Re: AWS to bare metal two years later: Answering your questions about leaving AWS

#229

Post by embedding-shape »

gtr wrote: post #220
embedding-shape wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In all other EU countries you just show up and board, but in Spain there's the security check Just for curiosity's sake, did any other EU countries have any recent terrorist attacks involving bombs on trains in the capital, or is Spain so far alone with this experience?

London had the tube bombings, but there is no security scanning there.

AFAIK, there is no security scanning on the metro/"tube" in Spain either, it's on the national train lines.

Edit: Also, after looking it up, it seems like London did add temporary security scanners at some locations in the wake of those bombings, although they weren't permanent.

Russia is the only other European country besides Spain that after train bombings added permanent security scanners. Belgium, France and a bunch of other countries have had train bombings, but none of them added permanent scanners like Spain or Russia did.

Re: AWS to bare metal two years later: Answering your questions about leaving AWS

#230

Post by torginus »

vjerancrnjak wrote: post #75
nik736 wrote: post #9

It's an interesting article, thanks for that. What people forget about the OVH or Hetzner comparison is that for those entry servers they are known for, think the Advance line with OVH or AX with Hetzner. Those boxes come with some drawbacks. The OVH Advance line for example comes without ECC memory, in a server, that might host databases. It's a disaster waiting to happen. There is no option to add ECC memory with t…

Is there software that works without ECC RAM ? I think most popular databases just assume memory never corrupts .

I'm pretty sure they keep internal internal checksums at various points to make sure the data on disk is intact - so does the filesystem, I think they can catch when memory corruption occurs, and can roll back to a consistent state (you still get some data loss).

But imo, systems like these (like the ones handling bank transaction), should have a degree of resiliency to this kind of failure, as any hw or sw problem can cause something similar.

Post reply on HN