Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

French ex-president Sarkozy begins jail sentence

bbc.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

221–230 of 561 posts

Re: French ex-president Sarkozy begins jail sentence

#221

Post by schmidtleonard »

greatgib wrote: post #146

Something really scary in France right now is that you can see really clearly how most mainstream media are used for propaganda. Since a few days, there is an abundance of cover and articles in most major newspaper here with propaganda and repeated lies supporting him. It's hard to imagine but non stop. You have everyday interviews of his family saying that it is an injustice, that he did nothing, that the judgement…

What's crazy to me is seeing this happen at an individual level. In 2022, my conservative family members were reluctantly but firmly on board with the idea that Trump did the crimes: lied to the tax man, stole the classified documents, leaned on the Georgia secretary of state to "find me 11780 votes," and on Jan 6 set up fake electors and asked Pence to overturn the election. In each case, they gave a good fight, but as those who are familiar with these cases know, the evidence is overwhelming, almost comically so at points (the fake elector certifications are so poorly put together that they are tough not to laugh at, the recording of trump bragging about the classified documents and establishing intent belongs in a law school documentary).

By 2024 they were 100% in lock-step with the party line that all cases were fake news lawfare (but wouldn't engage with detailed argument, of course) and in 2025 they are gaslighting me about ever having had those arguments at all. The only thing keeping me sane is the correspondence that I kept proving that our conversations weren't a product of my own fevered imagination.

Re: French ex-president Sarkozy begins jail sentence

#222

Post by brettermeier »

ytNumbers wrote: post #214

There is no excuse for corruption. However, everyone in all countries should ask themselves whether or not most of the representatives in their congress/parliament would, if investigated, be found guilty of the same sort of corruption. Power corrupts.

Yes, and you should lock them all up.

Re: French ex-president Sarkozy begins jail sentence

#223

Post by rkomorn »

byroot wrote: post #77
tasuki wrote: post #58

> Sarkozy said he would take two books with him into prison, a life of Jesus by Jean-Christian Petitfils and the Count of Monte Cristo The Count of Monte Cristo is a good choice.

It has nothing to do with literature. It’s just a not so subtle way to claim he’s innocent and that he’ll get his revenge.

Sure hope it's got nothing to do with literature because even I can read more than two books in five years.

Re: French ex-president Sarkozy begins jail sentence

#224

Post by varjag »

ytNumbers wrote: post #214

There is no excuse for corruption. However, everyone in all countries should ask themselves whether or not most of the representatives in their congress/parliament would, if investigated, be found guilty of the same sort of corruption. Power corrupts.

Relatively few politicians get their campaigns funded by hostile states, although it increasingly becomes more common. And while corruption is multifaceted this is clearly one of the graver violations. Let's hope all of them end up prosecuted. People were shot for less.

Re: French ex-president Sarkozy begins jail sentence

#226

Post by phtrivier »

greatgib wrote: post #146

Something really scary in France right now is that you can see really clearly how most mainstream media are used for propaganda. Since a few days, there is an abundance of cover and articles in most major newspaper here with propaganda and repeated lies supporting him. It's hard to imagine but non stop. You have everyday interviews of his family saying that it is an injustice, that he did nothing, that the judgement…

I would disagree on the "most mainstream media".

Clearly, all the right-wing papers that have traditionnaly supported him (Le Figaro, Match) and all the hard-right-wing papers (owned by Bolloré, Arnault, etc..) that have _personnal_ ties to him are playing their "opinion" part.

I don't think public media is defending him at all. Left or Center-left papers are not (obviously.)

The tie breaker would be: "what is TF1 20h saying" (this is, no matter what new media says, still the one thing that most people watch and treat as "the news") - and I don't think they have been "blatantly" defending him.

Re: French ex-president Sarkozy begins jail sentence

#228

Post by carefulfungi »

rat9988 wrote: post #141
tauwauwau wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Law doesn't seek to punish but to rehabilitate. Act of taking freedom away from the criminal is violent enough. Treating them badly is just a sign of unfair/poor society that cannot maintain (afford to keep) it's promise to be civil to all citizens.

> Law doesn't seek to punish Then who is tasked with delivering justice to the victims?

The core point of organized justice is to prevent blood feuds and long-running inter-personal or tribal conflict. Essentially, to interrupt or prevent a cycle of violence. Justice is reaching consensus on a set of facts and then ascertaining an appropriate compensation. That compensation can include a loss of freedom, a monetary payment, mandated service hours, or historically - torture and death. But what matters is a process that is broadly seen as a fair assessment and compensation sufficient to prevent revenge by the impacted parties.

Justice as prevention is secondary - and arguably ineffective - or we'd have no crime, no recidivism, no addicts, nobody acting with obviously negative personal outcomes.

Re: French ex-president Sarkozy begins jail sentence

#229

Post by Andrex »

whobre wrote: post #218
byroot wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It has nothing to do with literature. It’s just a not so subtle way to claim he’s innocent and that he’ll get his revenge.

The book has a pretty good description of how to escape prison…

French prison, at that.

Re: French ex-president Sarkozy begins jail sentence

#230

Post by phtrivier »

TacticalCoder wrote: post #191
greatgib wrote: post #146

Something really scary in France right now is that you can see really clearly how most mainstream media are used for propaganda. Since a few days, there is an abundance of cover and articles in most major newspaper here with propaganda and repeated lies supporting him. It's hard to imagine but non stop. You have everyday interviews of his family saying that it is an injustice, that he did nothing, that the judgement…

That's not the issue. The issue is that there are hundreds , if not thousands, of french politicians who should be in jail. I don't disagree with him going to jail: but it's one heck of a corrupt country where they all have their hands in the cookie jar. Most french politicians who served at the EU, for example, have friends and family as "employees" on their payroll (well, on the EU citizens' payroll). Same at non-E…

> And why do you think all the leftist french mainstream media root for right-wing Sarkozy?

Which are the "leftist french mainstream media" rooting for Sarkozy ?

The "leftist french mainstream media" I can think of would be Libération, Le Monde, Le Nouvel Obs, France Inter...

Do you have a link to articles where any of those are "defending" Sarkozy, cause quite frankly I missed it.

Post reply on HN