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French ex-president Sarkozy begins jail sentence

bbc.com

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Re: French ex-president Sarkozy begins jail sentence

#161

Post by lucasRW »

ivann wrote: post #156
lucasRW wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No it's not. A majority of judges belong the the "Syndicat de la Magistrature", a communist-leaning organization ( https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syndicat_de_la_magistrature ) which even participates (despite the supposed "independance" it should abide by) to the Communist Party's annual conference ("Fete de l'Huma"). COMMUNIST, not "socialist". Furthermore, many organizations and known figures of the french magistrat…

Your own link said it 33%, so not the majority. A union has no obligation of "independence". Being member of a union does not mean you agree with everything, just that you think it's the best to defend your interests. The "Fête de l’Huma" is not the Communist Party's annual conference but it is indeed left leaning. There is no need to write communist in all caps, it's not an insult. For your last point you'll need to…

Yeah, it's not communist, it's just "left-leaning", organized by L'Humanite, a communist newspaper (who calls itself so), known for amongst other things, for grieving the "great comrade Stalin"'s death on its front page dated 9th March 1953. :o)

And sure, belonging to a communist-leaning syndicate which publicly takes political stances (one being to say "dont vote for Sarkozy") has strictly no influence on how you deliver sentencing, nor does the famous incident "mur des cons" in 2013.

Re: French ex-president Sarkozy begins jail sentence

#162

Post by aaplok »

cudgy wrote: post #154
thrance wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

How is calling for equal and humane treatment of prisoners high and righteous? You are recommending targeted abuse for certain prisoners that goes beyond the sentence imposed by a court. Maybe a better way of stating it is that you are low and unjust.

OP's point is that French prisons are famously derelict. They are overcrowded, dirty, dangerous. Regular prisoners do not enjoy the luxury of a VIP cell.

Sarkozy played no small part in making this happen.

We should absolutely wish for all prisoners to be treated decently, and it is a terrible thing that the matter is only brought up when someone like Sarkozy has to ensure a portion of what regular prisoners endure.

And worst of all, his political followers are all lamenting about the conditions he is in while remaining hardliners for the rest of the prisoners. You are right that OP should not wish ill on Sarkozy, whose distress is real and painful to see. But OP's frustration is understandable to anyone who cares even a little for the welfare of regular prisoners in France.

Re: French ex-president Sarkozy begins jail sentence

#164

Post by nevon »

rat9988 wrote: post #141
tauwauwau wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Law doesn't seek to punish but to rehabilitate. Act of taking freedom away from the criminal is violent enough. Treating them badly is just a sign of unfair/poor society that cannot maintain (afford to keep) it's promise to be civil to all citizens.

> Law doesn't seek to punish Then who is tasked with delivering justice to the victims?

What you are referring to is vengeance, not justice. Some people see the two as inseparable and others do not.

Re: French ex-president Sarkozy begins jail sentence

#165

Post by oulipo2 »

greatgib wrote: post #146

Something really scary in France right now is that you can see really clearly how most mainstream media are used for propaganda. Since a few days, there is an abundance of cover and articles in most major newspaper here with propaganda and repeated lies supporting him. It's hard to imagine but non stop. You have everyday interviews of his family saying that it is an injustice, that he did nothing, that the judgement…

Exactly. Meanwhile 75% of French people agree that he should go to jail. This is nuts

Re: French ex-president Sarkozy begins jail sentence

#166

Post by NaomiLehman »

Tepix wrote: post #138
tauwauwau wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Law doesn't seek to punish but to rehabilitate. Act of taking freedom away from the criminal is violent enough. Treating them badly is just a sign of unfair/poor society that cannot maintain (afford to keep) it's promise to be civil to all citizens.

> Law doesn't seek to punish but to rehabilitate. That's unfortunately not universally true. This is most obvious when considering the death penalty. Norway exemplifies a rehabilitative justice model and it is effective, evidenced by low recidivism rates.

Very few first-world countries have death penalties?

Re: French ex-president Sarkozy begins jail sentence

#168

Post by oulipo2 »

wiether wrote: post #80
oulipo2 wrote: post #52

We, French, are very proud of having put an ex-President in jail, for his crimes of having tried to whitewash a dictator responsible for the death of more French people than the Bataclan terror attacks in exchange for money. This person humiliated our country, and we're glad our justice put him behind bars

I'm a "half empty" kind of person and seeing how much support he's still getting is quite sad to see. Karine Le Marchand expressing her support is one thing, identifiyng herself as being part of the same caste as Sarkozy, but seeing the same support from regular folks, who have most certainly been screwed over by the ex-President...

The "support" seems to be mainly "engineered" by billionaire-owned media

Re: French ex-president Sarkozy begins jail sentence

#169

Post by NaomiLehman »

0xAFFFF wrote: post #28
dmead wrote: post #3

The French understand how to run a society.

Well no. French person here. While this verdict is a great victory for democracy in itself, a lot of problems around it are still not solved. - Prosecuting white-collar crime still takes ages and takes over a decade, long after the resulting sentences have a real impact - People like Nicolas Sarkozy have powerful media relays (most of the TV/newspaper owners in France are friends of him or at least sympathetic) and t…

compared to most countries you are still doing great!

Re: French ex-president Sarkozy begins jail sentence

#170

Post by SiempreViernes »

darkamaul wrote: post #115
timpera wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It needs to be noted that it's not the norm in France either. The court chose to send him to jail until the appeal because of the "exceptional gravity" of his behavior, which came to a surprise for many. He will most likely ask the courts to review the execution of the sentence until the appeal in the next few days.

Sarkozy was convicted for "association de malfaiteurs" (criminal conspiracy) related to allowing associates to meet with Libyan officials to discuss covert campaign financing for his 2007 election. Remarkably, while convicted of conspiracy, he was acquitted on the actual underlying charges. The tribunal acknowledged no direct evidence linked Sarkozy to receiving or handling the funds and that the disputed flows weren…

"Hoisted by his own petard" would be a more appropriate saying to invoke.
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