Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Right now, the only thing that makes credit cards a better proposition is being able to pay without having enough money in the bank, and maybe enjoying greater protection from fraudulent merchants. Rewards is another big one and the reason I personally prefer to use credit cards where possible.
Rewards exist because credit card transaction fees to merchants are very high, though. Europe put a limit on those fees and no credit card rewards exist here.
Visa and Mastercard: The global payment duopoly (2024)
221–230 of 317 posts
Re: Visa and Mastercard: The global payment duopoly (2024)
#222Earlier quoted context omitted.
I got in this thread with the expectation of seeing a comment like yours, so thank you for that. I think what worries the U.S. more is the likelihood of Pix spreading around the world. It’s such a great public program that I believe many countries will eventually adopt it, or adopt some version of it. In fact, AFAIK some places already have it, like Thailand and Malaysia. Consumers like it because it is widely availa…
India has UPI. China has something. It is only a good thing that this should spread everywhere.
Re: Visa and Mastercard: The global payment duopoly (2024)
#223The credit card duopoly is another instance where the EU has done a good job with regulation, but everyone just takes it for granted until they’re reminded how much worse the rest of the world has it. In the EU, card payment fees are capped at 0.2% for debit cards and 0.3% for credit cards. In the US, these interchange fees are about 2%. US businesses pay over $100 billion annually in these fees to card networks. If…
No it hasn't. The right cap is 0, like in Brazil. It doesn't make any sense to have 0% payment fees on cash and 0.2% on cards. Cash is easier to fake.
It also doesn't make any sense to be a percentage. It takes the same number of bits to transport the number 10000 as it does to transport the number 10.
Even 0.2% is essentially just a privatized tax.
Re: Visa and Mastercard: The global payment duopoly (2024)
#224Earlier quoted context omitted.
First things first — this is correct. As a matter of fact, the Brazillian Pix - which gets much more “eyeballs” on places like HN, are much newer than UPI and UPI was one of the inspirations, if I may say so, behind it; and it dwarves in scale. Not to mention UPI is designed to be decentralised (almost decentralised). Fair warning (pc, please know that I am not targeting you) about the URL pc has shared - it’s litera…
This is disgusting. Calling the biggest democratic party as authoritarian is nothing but disgusting. Why do you people think you and your opinions are better than majority?
https://thediplomat.com/2025/04/modis-india-is-a-dangerous-p...
https://theprint.in/opinion/authoritarian-streak-among-india...
https://www.lemonde.fr/en/international/article/2024/07/04/m...
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S00167...
This isn’t a fringe view or “disgusting”
Re: Visa and Mastercard: The global payment duopoly (2024)
#225The credit card duopoly is another instance where the EU has done a good job with regulation, but everyone just takes it for granted until they’re reminded how much worse the rest of the world has it. In the EU, card payment fees are capped at 0.2% for debit cards and 0.3% for credit cards. In the US, these interchange fees are about 2%. US businesses pay over $100 billion annually in these fees to card networks. If…
The EU (the ECB) is actively working towards a system similar to SEPA (Single Euro Payments Area) but for cards [0]. This would enable card transfers to also become faster (SEPA is instantaneous even cross-border within the EU) also allow for operations not depending on Visa or Mastercard. There is a major EU effort to develop an alternative 'instant payment' system that doesn't depend on Visa or Mastercard called We…
Sounds like it's supposed to replace Payconiq (which is currently the biggest mobile payment service in Belgium).
The fragmentation of payment services is starting to annoy me. I can use cash or cards everywhere in the eurozone with 100% compatibility. But every handful of banks in every country has decided to create their own payment "solution". Typically using Android & iOS apps that require an insane number of permissions (including location and wifi connections!?).
Looks like wero is just more of the same. Another non-standard that's only supported by a handful banks in a handful of countries. And I'll bet it won't work on rooted android devices, and that there won't be a web version.
At least it's built on top of SEPA Instant Payments, which is a step forward...
Re: Visa and Mastercard: The global payment duopoly (2024)
#226Earlier quoted context omitted.
Bundling consumer protection with the payment system was always a bad idea. Payments need to be instantaneous and free. The returns/refunds can be handled offline by a mutually agreed facilitator that does not have a monopoly on the payment system. You can also have a legal mandate that all internet purchase, for example, should employ such a service, that charges a market fee and is then liable for making fair decis…
It is not a bad idea. This is how it is supposed to be. My bank offers this even with Mastercard. I have to approve transactions when paying online. It's instant, I finish checkout, and then I receive the push notification asking me to confirm the transaction. I don't know if I would ever use CC in a country where banks don't allow this.
The case where you have a dispute with the merchant (i.e transaction is authorised but problem is 1 layer up - you feel that reality doesn't match up with the payment record!) is different. You paid as intended but the thing you wanted didn't happen. Right now things are bundled together.
Sometimes this is handled by marketplace (think amazon, vs paypal/ebay and their different balances of favouring merchant vs consumer) but overall (e.g. consider shopify who are basically uncontactable in case of merchant disputes) I don't think the whole payments system makes this very clear. In practice it is sort of a shifting balance between various parties.
There are actually big questions of who eats risk between consumer, platform, merchant and various payment processors for a given transaction and things are a bit obscured. In practice all the parties EXCEPT the consumer know what is really going on.
It could be made much more clear who has the responsibility for resolving merchant disputes and their records could be made public, and this could be a more explicit point of difference in payment / marketplace offerings.
I think lots of people would make different decisions about where and how they bought things if they could see statistics about how disputes are handled.
I am not arguing for any specific method of solving disputes or more government intervention in general, I just think that if things were more transparent (mandatory reporting) fewer people would feel ripped off, people could make more informed decisions, and marketplaces / processors who are adept at resolving disputes would be rewarded as they deserve. Basically, the market would work better.
Re: Visa and Mastercard: The global payment duopoly (2024)
#227Earlier quoted context omitted.
> AFAIK some places already have it, like Thailand and Malaysia. Also Vietnam (Napas247), Singapore (PayNow), Philippines (QR Ph), Japan (lots different systems), China (WeChat/Alipay, I think?), Russia (SBP), Belarus (ERIP, in a sense), and the whole of EU (SEPA transfers). One problem is, most of them don’t really work for you if you’re a foreigner. Moreta (YC S24) is doing something in SEA, and I’ve seen another s…
The EU is also now pushing WERO https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wero_(payment)
Re: Visa and Mastercard: The global payment duopoly (2024)
#228Earlier quoted context omitted.
I am in Thailand. Fraud is a much smaller issue because it’s a push-based system. You cannot withdrawal from someone else’s account just by knowing the number, unlike with credit cards.
What about fighting charges? In the US, if I flag a charge on my credit card it's immediately cancelled and they deal with it. How does that work?
Re: Visa and Mastercard: The global payment duopoly (2024)
#229Earlier quoted context omitted.
Canada has something similar (Interac), but the transaction marketshare has been steadily eroding to credit cards. (Since credit cards offer credit + credit/cashback, and extra fees for paying by credit cards are very rare.)
Interac is a debit network in Canada, and the merchant fees are impressively low. They're generally under $0.10 as a flat fee, not a percentage (credit cards would cost the merchant around 2%). https://www.interac.ca/en/payments/business/understanding-fe... , https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interac One consequence of the flat fee is that at some retail stores, if you pay by debit, you can ask for "cash back". For examp…
Re: Visa and Mastercard: The global payment duopoly (2024)
#230Brazil central bank introduced Pix a few years ago. It took over the country as the public basic infrastructure for money transfer. Totally free and instantaneous transactions between people and companies, available to all banks. Then, just last week, the US presidency launched an investigation considering Pix an unfair trade practice against the US. Actions like that may show the current direction of the US governme…
I got in this thread with the expectation of seeing a comment like yours, so thank you for that. I think what worries the U.S. more is the likelihood of Pix spreading around the world. It’s such a great public program that I believe many countries will eventually adopt it, or adopt some version of it. In fact, AFAIK some places already have it, like Thailand and Malaysia. Consumers like it because it is widely availa…