Visa and Mastercard: The global payment duopoly (2024) • Hacker News Board

Re: Visa and Mastercard: The global payment duopoly (2024)

#81

Post by eyeris » Fri, Jul 25, 2025, 12:18 AM UTC

Detrytus wrote: post #68

TMWNN wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Sometimes you get travel insurance, with the card that charges 200 EUR annual fee Why would someone pay EUR200 each year for that credit card, then? Why does it exist at all? The only US credit cards I know of that have fees have fees because of their (huge) benefits. You, of course, pretended to not see my pointing out your laughable math regarding fees versus cashback even though I said up front that I get 2-5% b…

The math must to check out from the bank perspective, there's no way around that, no bank will accept losing money. If your credit card gives you 2% cash back on everything then obviously interchange fees charged must be just a tiny bit higher. [1] As for 5% cashback on Amazon purchases (or similar promos) that's a completely different business model: the card is co-branded by Amazon, so it is Amazon that eats the co…

It could be amortized by the amount of people they expect to be delinquent. CC interest have super nasty rates.

Re: Visa and Mastercard: The global payment duopoly (2024)

#82

Post by hopelite » Fri, Jul 25, 2025, 12:18 AM UTC

mzitelli wrote: post #17

Brazil central bank introduced Pix a few years ago. It took over the country as the public basic infrastructure for money transfer. Totally free and instantaneous transactions between people and companies, available to all banks. Then, just last week, the US presidency launched an investigation considering Pix an unfair trade practice against the US. Actions like that may show the current direction of the US governme…

It is total corruption through Visa/MC of our political system in a way that people really do not understand. That is who and what would be affected. You can’t even get anyone to propose a bill to create a digital payment processing capacity just like how the government issues currency. It has been the hijacking and takeover of the most fundamental task of the government, issuing currency.

Re: Visa and Mastercard: The global payment duopoly (2024)

#83

Post by hopelite » Fri, Jul 25, 2025, 12:20 AM UTC

pavlov wrote: post #13

The credit card duopoly is another instance where the EU has done a good job with regulation, but everyone just takes it for granted until they’re reminded how much worse the rest of the world has it. In the EU, card payment fees are capped at 0.2% for debit cards and 0.3% for credit cards. In the US, these interchange fees are about 2%. US businesses pay over $100 billion annually in these fees to card networks. If…

That money goes to buying off politicians though. So it’s a good investment to make the American people pay for their own robbery.

Re: Visa and Mastercard: The global payment duopoly (2024)

#84

Post by kwanbix » Fri, Jul 25, 2025, 12:26 AM UTC

thimabi wrote: post #49

mzitelli wrote: post #17

Brazil central bank introduced Pix a few years ago. It took over the country as the public basic infrastructure for money transfer. Totally free and instantaneous transactions between people and companies, available to all banks. Then, just last week, the US presidency launched an investigation considering Pix an unfair trade practice against the US. Actions like that may show the current direction of the US governme…

I got in this thread with the expectation of seeing a comment like yours, so thank you for that. I think what worries the U.S. more is the likelihood of Pix spreading around the world. It’s such a great public program that I believe many countries will eventually adopt it, or adopt some version of it. In fact, AFAIK some places already have it, like Thailand and Malaysia. Consumers like it because it is widely availa…

In Argentina we have Mercado Pago which is basically this.

Re: Visa and Mastercard: The global payment duopoly (2024)

#85

Post by mzitelli » Fri, Jul 25, 2025, 12:27 AM UTC

thimabi wrote: post #49

mzitelli wrote: post #17

Brazil central bank introduced Pix a few years ago. It took over the country as the public basic infrastructure for money transfer. Totally free and instantaneous transactions between people and companies, available to all banks. Then, just last week, the US presidency launched an investigation considering Pix an unfair trade practice against the US. Actions like that may show the current direction of the US governme…

I got in this thread with the expectation of seeing a comment like yours, so thank you for that. I think what worries the U.S. more is the likelihood of Pix spreading around the world. It’s such a great public program that I believe many countries will eventually adopt it, or adopt some version of it. In fact, AFAIK some places already have it, like Thailand and Malaysia. Consumers like it because it is widely availa…

> Right now, the only thing that makes credit cards a better proposition is being able to pay without having enough money in the bank

It will not take long. Banks are already offering products with credit on top of the Pix. Furthermore, contactless Pix is now available in Android phones. If we look from the financial and usability aspects, Pix will continue eating the credit card market share.

I didn't know Thailand and Malaysia had similar systems, though. I hope the example spreads! Creating a competitive infrastructure and product is an interesting way to deal with monopolies.

Re: Visa and Mastercard: The global payment duopoly (2024)

#86

Post by Marsymars » Fri, Jul 25, 2025, 12:28 AM UTC

rprend wrote: post #30

Speaking as someone who tried (and failed) to build a competitor, merchants don’t actually care about the fees. We built a mobile payment system using bank transfer rails (ACH debits and FedNow credits) for ecom platforms. QR payments, just like AliPay, but for the US. We studied past failures at this same idea, and targeted specifically high ticket items (jewelry, luxury), because the fees are a bigger problem, and…

> Merchants might say they care about the fees, but in practice they care about conversion and getting sales.

Also highlighted by all the merchants jumping to support the “buy now, pay later” providers.

Re: Visa and Mastercard: The global payment duopoly (2024)

#87

Post by Marsymars » Fri, Jul 25, 2025, 12:31 AM UTC

kristofferR wrote: post #47

Not a total duopoly, almost all cards in Norway are dual network - the local network BankAxept + Visa/Mastercard, the cheapest option (BankAxept) is selected invisibly for the users when possible while the cards still works flawlessly all places that only accept Visa/Mastercard globally. Big businesses only pay 0.0475% + ~0.003 USD per transaction for BankAxept: https://bankaxept.no/hjelp/priser-for-bankaxept 8/10 ca…

Canada has something similar (Interac), but the transaction marketshare has been steadily eroding to credit cards. (Since credit cards offer credit + credit/cashback, and extra fees for paying by credit cards are very rare.)

Re: Visa and Mastercard: The global payment duopoly (2024)

#88

Post by mzitelli » Fri, Jul 25, 2025, 12:36 AM UTC

kwanbix wrote: post #84

thimabi wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I got in this thread with the expectation of seeing a comment like yours, so thank you for that. I think what worries the U.S. more is the likelihood of Pix spreading around the world. It’s such a great public program that I believe many countries will eventually adopt it, or adopt some version of it. In fact, AFAIK some places already have it, like Thailand and Malaysia. Consumers like it because it is widely availa…

In Argentina we have Mercado Pago which is basically this.

It is not the same. Mercado Pago is a product from Mercado Livre and charges at least 0.8% per transaction.

Re: Visa and Mastercard: The global payment duopoly (2024)

#89

Post by TMWNN » Fri, Jul 25, 2025, 12:39 AM UTC

pseudo0 wrote: post #76

TMWNN wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Is there information on EU vs US credit limits? I would be very interested in this as well. My understanding is that cashback cards of the type we have everywhere in the US (e.g. Amazon Amex = 5% back on Amazon purchases, Wells Fargo Active Cash = 2% back on everything) don't exist elsewhere. Another example: I just earned $1000 from Chase Sapphire as a new customer bonus for diverting $5K of the spending I would do…

That's a card with a $800 annual fee... And the Amazon Amex requires a Prime membership, so you are paying at least $140/year for that card. Credit card companies aren't stupid, they offer a few loss leaders but they make it annoying and time-consuming to come out ahead. And most of the big perks are one-time only, they have gotten much better at banning "churners".

> That's a card with a $800 annual fee

Not my Sapphire. $95. Undecided on whether to keep it or change to another type (I'm not a churner, so 5/24 is not relevant). Also undecided on whether to keep the 100,000 points sitting in the rewards balance for the time being, or cash it out to the aforementioned $1000 now.

Re: Visa and Mastercard: The global payment duopoly (2024)

#90

Post by TMWNN » Fri, Jul 25, 2025, 12:44 AM UTC

idiotsecant wrote: post #75

TMWNN wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>That's just your bank giving back some (but not all) of those 2% interchange fees. On the contrary, for someone like me who pays off my balances each month, if I get 2% back for every transaction, I am breaking even on those fees if assuming that I pay 100% of the fees, which of course isn't true; the merchant pays some of that. So really, I come out slightly ahead. For something like the Amex I mentioned with its 5…

When the 'merchant pays those fees' how do you suppose they are paying them? I will give you a hint for free: it's not a special bank account that says 'definitely not paid for by my customers' on it.

Of course. But that is the case for all fees, taxes, surcharges, etc. Money is fungible. There is always some amount of give and take in terms of whether "they" or "me" is the one paying the tax bill/tariff bill/etc in terms of the bottom line.

Given that, and given the necessity of there being some amount of fees to support the credit-card infrastructure, the question for a consumer like me is whether I come out ahead on balance. I can pretty clearly say that I do for the Amazon Amex, and believe that I do for the Wells Fargo.