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Electric cars produce less brake dust pollution than combustion-engine cars

modernengineeringmarvels.com

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Re: Electric cars produce less brake dust pollution than combustion-engine cars

#221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't engine brake with the clutch, you engine brake by downshifting and using the higher engine RPM in lower gears to brake the car via wasted compression.

And that downshifting involves a clutch operation, moving the engine into a higher RPM. That most certainly wears down the clutch, talking as someone who's replaced quite a few of them.

I've seen an interesting A-B test with this seeing the difference in clutch wear between the Ferrari F1 transmission in the 599 and 612 and the DuoSelect transmission which is essentially the same box in the Quattroporte. The shifting strategy and technique is more of a controlled variable here because the shifting is automatic though it's a somewhat traditional manual gearbox with hydraulic actuation. The QP is a bit heavier but the Ferraris make a lot more power. From what I saw the cars that fared far worse were the Quattroportes, and those that ate the most clutches by far were the ones putting around the city, especially in San Francisco, Marin, Los Altos Hills, etc. where people are slowly creeping into parking spots on hills. On the Ferraris that are weekend warriors that get driven hard the clutches could go 30k+ miles no problem, Quattroportes would come in with smoked clutches in a few thousand miles sometimes.

Re: Electric cars produce less brake dust pollution than combustion-engine cars

#222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow. Well, I like that the people that think like this also probably live I places where you are actually driving a coal powered car. Like the clowns in Hawaii that have extra subsidies for EVs… their power comes directly from burning crude oil. I’m an automotive EE, and and the truth about EVs is in a rush to push them out the door, the media and politicians have set the tech back at least a decade by pretending it…

I don't agree with a ban, but burning crude oil (are you sure about that, it's usually refined at least a little?) can have centralised carbon capture and filtration, whereas cars pretty much just pump it straight out. Luckily they made the smoke invisible so it's ok, almost like it's not even there!

They don’t even unload it from the tankers. Absolute crude. Seen it with my own two.

Exactly, as long as no one sees it, it isn’t happening. Same with them burning plastic and trash.

Re: Electric cars produce less brake dust pollution than combustion-engine cars

#223
post #16

We should obviously ban combustion engine cars, at least starting with cities. I can’t think of a single clearer win for air quality.

If all of us renters were forced to convert to electric there’d never be an open charger in any city again for the next five years, because no landlord will voluntarily afford that cost, and no municipal region can pass a ballot measure to afford that cost. California’s impending ban of combustion car sales hinges wholly on a magical DC-charging network that doesn’t exist in U.S. cities yet (i.e. at parking meters),…

I’ve got an EV in a flat with a terrace in London. There’s 4 22kw charging car parks within a few min walk, and a lot more further, plus a few more expensive fast chargers. Works well.

Re: Electric cars produce less brake dust pollution than combustion-engine cars

#224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends on how you drive. I never engine braked on my manual. Brakes are easy to replace. Clutches are not.

You don't engine brake with the clutch, you engine brake by downshifting and using the higher engine RPM in lower gears to brake the car via wasted compression.

Actually you'll get some engine braking by just letting off the gas and stepping on the break. Fuel will get cut off in these cases in most cars (unless you're running a very old carburetor car)

Re: Electric cars produce less brake dust pollution than combustion-engine cars

#225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't engine brake with the clutch, you engine brake by downshifting and using the higher engine RPM in lower gears to brake the car via wasted compression.

And that downshifting involves a clutch operation, moving the engine into a higher RPM. That most certainly wears down the clutch, talking as someone who's replaced quite a few of them.

The clutch wear on a standard downshift must absolutely negligible when compared to accelerating from a full stop and especially when compared to slower-that-idle operation, i.e. parking.

Also, I have never ever had to replace a clutch, and I drive my cars way past 100k miles.

Re: Electric cars produce less brake dust pollution than combustion-engine cars

#226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And manual transmission cars kinda, though the energy is still wasted of course

Depends on how you drive. I never engine braked on my manual. Brakes are easy to replace. Clutches are not.

You don't need to touch your clutch to do engine breaking. If you wear out your clutch by shifting gears you're doing something wrong

Re: Electric cars produce less brake dust pollution than combustion-engine cars

#227
post #41

I suppose the same should apply to hybrid cars, which outnumber pure EVs significantly [1]. The effect comes from converting the kinetic energy back to the battery charge via generation instead of wasting it via friction, which is the whole point of hybrids. [1]: https://www.consumeraffairs.com/automotive/how-many-electric...

which is the whole point of hybrids Part of the point, not the whole point. Regenerative breaking is absolutely a win; but there can also be a significant benefit from allowing the ICE to remain in the RPM "sweet spot" rather than moving around a larger range.

I heard about that long ago but couldn't find more, so IIUC chemically it's easier and more efficient to have a "one mode" combustion engine and let the electric engine deal with the variations, to the point that the reaction produces near no toxic byproducts, is that right ? I was wondering if there was research to keep improving that part. Even though it would help sustain the fossil fuel industry..

Re: Electric cars produce less brake dust pollution than combustion-engine cars

#228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends on how you drive. I never engine braked on my manual. Brakes are easy to replace. Clutches are not.

engine braking does not have any effect on the clutch, other than while downshifting, which if you're blipping/rev-matching has practically no effect

Exactly, if your clutch suffers abuse when you are shifting gears (unless you're trying to aggressively accelerate of course) you need to rethink what you're doing.

Not saying it's smart but when predictably decelerating on the highway I sometimes shift gears by rev matching and changing without even touching the clutch, for the fun of it.

Re: Electric cars produce less brake dust pollution than combustion-engine cars

#229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Effectiveness of regenerative braking depends on having an extremely large battery that can sink enough current to stop the car. An EV can do that, hybrids at best help the brakes out some. You just can't charge the battery fast enough doing anything but a very slow rolling stop. This seems a bit exaggerated. Staying regenerative-only does require sticking to about half or so of how fast I could stop, but so far th…

100% of possible system capacity to accept regenerative charge on a smaller battery system will be a smaller absolute number than 100% of possible on a larger battery. If you assume everything else is constant, motor, inverter, battery C-rating etc.

I'm not sure what you're arguing here.

Bigger battery is more capacity sure. But their point was that even without a big battery they have enough capacity to get close to maximum effectiveness, contrary to ajross saying that a hybrid's capacity is "not really" effective and "at best" helps "some".

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