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Google Fiber is coming to Las Vegas

fiber.googleblog.com

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Re: Google Fiber is coming to Las Vegas

#221
post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't hold my breath. At my previous house, CenturyLink/quantum site said it was available. I called half a dozen times to get it installed, each time some contractor would show up and tell me it's not available. I was confused because they spent months very visibility installing it throughout the neighborhood. Talking to some of the contractors, it was interesting to hear stories about why it was available in s…

Can you say what the issue was?

I didn't fully understand the details when they were explaining it to be, but iirc something was disconnected around the corner, and they couldn't just reconnect it because it wasn't the right hardware.

This played out over several months

Re: Google Fiber is coming to Las Vegas

#222
post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's kinda like saying back in the 1990's that 90% of families wouldn't use more than 56.6k. Well, because that's all they had access to.

No, a single user would routinely max out their dial-up connection just doing normal browsing things. Even just pulling a lot of email from a pop endpoint could max out that connection. Browsing web pages with graphics would absolutely crush a dial up connection. Some places tried to do things like handle video over such a connection, but it was pretty painful and pretty much useless. Streaming a song was pretty poin…

> These days a 200Mbit connection would handle five or so users doom scrolling social media

Is that because all you can do is doom scroll on an internet connection, or are there higher bandwidth possibilities waiting for 10gig home internet service to arrive?

To some extent making that argument is like Bill Gates saying "All anyone will ever need is 640k."

Re: Google Fiber is coming to Las Vegas

#223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve got 10 gig with 5 millisecond ping to Ashburn (Comcast’s gigabit x10, so it’s a full 10 gig port to the head end, not PON) and web surfing still sucks because JavaScript.

Are you surfing the web on a toaster? I only run into network bottlenecks or pages that suck because it loads tons of ads, which isn’t a javascript issue really. Yeah its not Wasm fast, and JS has some terrible stuff from a language perspective, but I don’t blame a slow web on Javascript. Certainly not for everyday browsing

MacBook Air M3.

Re: Google Fiber is coming to Las Vegas

#224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meanwhile, I'm paying 120/month for 150MB down, 75 up to my rural telco-op, and compared to the satellite internet I had before, I'm happy to be paying it.

I have this wacky idea of community fiber kiosks where you stop to fast-download large files/torrents/data dumps Any opinions on this from a user experience point of view?

Reminds me of when I was in university, and only had dial-up at home, so I bought a Zip drive for my PC, knowing the computer labs had the same, and I could take stuff home that way.

Re: Google Fiber is coming to Las Vegas

#225
post #100

Speaking as a former Google Fiber software engineer, I'm honestly surprised this is still around. In 2017, basically all the Google Fiber software teams went on hiatus (mine included). I can't speak to the timing or rationale but my theory is that the Google leadership couldn't decide if the future of Internet was wired or wireless and a huge investment in wired may be invalidated if the future Internet was wired so…

> There were missteps along the way. A big example was the TV software that was originally an acquisition, SageTV [2]. Somebody decided it would be a good idea to completely rewrite this Java app into Web technologies on an embedded Chrome instance on a memory-limited embedded CPU in a set-top box. Originally planned to take 6 months, it took (IIRC) 3.5+ years. I worked on the "misstep" with a small team, and it’s wi…

+1 to what was said above; the UI didn't take 3.5 years to make - we launched it fairly quickly and then continued to improve on it. Later there was large UX refresh, so maybe that's where OP is getting confused? Either way, that software continued to work for years after the team was moved on to other projects. SageTV was good, but the UI wasn't java - it was a custom xml-like layout.

Re: Google Fiber is coming to Las Vegas

#226
post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, a single user would routinely max out their dial-up connection just doing normal browsing things. Even just pulling a lot of email from a pop endpoint could max out that connection. Browsing web pages with graphics would absolutely crush a dial up connection. Some places tried to do things like handle video over such a connection, but it was pretty painful and pretty much useless. Streaming a song was pretty poin…

> These days a 200Mbit connection would handle five or so users doom scrolling social media Is that because all you can do is doom scroll on an internet connection, or are there higher bandwidth possibilities waiting for 10gig home internet service to arrive? To some extent making that argument is like Bill Gates saying "All anyone will ever need is 640k."

Tons of households (even in the US) have access to 1G+ home internet connectivity and yet that seems to be most of what their usage is.

According to the FCC, in December 2023 something like 79% of all households had at least 100Mbit fixed internet, ~24% had 940Mbit or better. The NCTA claims 91% have access to gigabit or better. I do agree they're probably overselling that number (cable companies maps are often trash), but it wouldn't surprise me if it was really something more like 80% or more have some kind of access to gigabit but might just be cost prohibitive for what they care to spend.

https://www.fcc.gov/internet-access-services-reports

https://www.ncta.com/industry-data/91-of-us-homes-have-acces...

If these households aren't even really utilizing their gigabit connections very much today, what makes you think they're just waiting for 10 gigabit connectivity? What applications would they even really do with 10gig connectivity with hardware they'll have in the next five years, something normies would really care to do?

By and large people don't even care that much about 4K or ultra-high-quality video streaming. The two most popular Netflix plans are Standard and Standard with Ads. Blu-Rays are dead. VR acceptance is still pretty slow.

Even something like cloud gaming is really only using like 40-60Mbit of throughput for even a 4K gaming stream. Quadruple it, we're at 240Mbit. And even if we did ship 10gig home internet, it's not like we're just going to stop compressing the stream; a 4K 120Hz HDR stream is going to be ~32Gbit. Average household size in the US is about 3.23, so all three and a third people could be using 240Mbit and still have another 280Mbit of throughput.

Don't get me wrong, some percentage of home users would use a multi-gig home internet connection. But even though I can subscribe to a 5gig internet package and I'm more on the enthusiast end of things with a family with multiple kids and several 6E AP's with wired backhaul, hosting multiple applications and SDRs from my home, it's just not worth it to me to bother paying for it over the gigabit plan. Even if it was only $10/mo more I probably wouldn't jump to the higher plan. It wouldn't change my access or usage at all while costing another $120/yr.

Sell me on a 10gig home internet plan over a 1gig home internet plan. How is it going to radically change my usage with the kind of hardware most consumers actually buy and use? For that matter, sell me on a 1gig plan over a 500Mbit plan for a typical US household, let's say two adults and two teenage-ish kids. Would they really even see much of a difference in their day to day lives?

Back in the 90s it was pretty obvious what could be unlocked by having an always on multi-megabit internet connection over a single dial up connection for a household. It was just very prohibitively expensive for most people. I wouldn't say its anywhere near as obvious what benefits are to be had for a household today to jump from 500Mbit to 1gig or especially 1gig to 10gig.

Re: Google Fiber is coming to Las Vegas

#227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it's mostly an artifact of shitty ISPs like Xfinity that haven't figured out that in 2025 non-symmetric download and upload is really dumb. I have 300mbps currently because if I dropped to 100, my upload would go from 30 to 5, and it's nice to be able to upload a file at higher than dial up speeds

> non-symmetric download and upload is really dumb. IIRC all their asymmetric internet packages are based on their coax deployments. It's not a dumb tradeoff in the coax space even though I don't like their choices of how much in each direction they usually do. There are only so many useful channels they can deploy in a given physical network. They could offer more upload bandwidth at the expense of download bandwidt…

I know that's the theory, I just don't think it's true. Video calls anc gaming are some of the higher bandwidth consumers and are symmetrical bandwidth.

Re: Google Fiber is coming to Las Vegas

#228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> non-symmetric download and upload is really dumb. IIRC all their asymmetric internet packages are based on their coax deployments. It's not a dumb tradeoff in the coax space even though I don't like their choices of how much in each direction they usually do. There are only so many useful channels they can deploy in a given physical network. They could offer more upload bandwidth at the expense of download bandwidt…

I know that's the theory, I just don't think it's true. Video calls anc gaming are some of the higher bandwidth consumers and are symmetrical bandwidth.

Gaming often uses extremely little amounts of bandwidth for a match, often less than a megabit or two.

Video calls, sure, but still most platforms are still averaging a handful of megabits. Most people don't have high quality webcams at home, so really moving to 10Mbit+ uploads isn't really going to do much for them.

Meanwhile people will likely stream HD video for hours and hours on their TVs, averaging 15+Mbit. They'll stream music which is like a basic online game but only a single direction. They'll download 100GB game downloads, scroll social media, etc. Do you think the average user uploads more media or downloads more media to social media?

I'd agree something like 20Mbit is probably too low for even an average US household, but in the end I'd say most consumers are still going to care more about download speed than upload speed. Just look around here in the comments and notice lots of people talk about how a fast connection is great because of large game downloads and what not; few people are justifying fast connections to home users because of sending data.

I use a lot of my upload data, but I'm definitely not a normal household. I hop on my VPN and stream data from my SDRs remotely, which will use hundreds of megabits. I host media streaming servers. I do remote gaming from my gaming PC to my handheld sometimes. I have some other applications I connect to while out. But I'm definitely not normal. And yet I still on average have 5-10x down than up usage.

Re: Google Fiber is coming to Las Vegas

#229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've got a /48 IPv6 subnet with CenturyLink 1G/1G. It's a 6rd tunnel, but it's provided by the same ISP. Hopefully they'll go native soon, but it may not matter if I switch to Google Fiber. My 1G/1G CenturyLink plan is $65/mo, which beats Google's $70 plan for the same thing in the same market, but I've had this plan for 5 years and it is no longer available.

I'm not familiar with 6rd, do you get actual routable IPs that you can use (to host services, etc)? Or is it just some kind of NAT equivalent?

It's just a protocol to tunnel IPv6 within IPv4 datagrams. The "RD" stands for "Rapid Deployment" and it was meant to be a temporary solution that would go away when the edge was updated. I'm not sure why it's still around.

The assigned IPs are dynamic, and hosting from a residence is probably against the ToS. I've never checked to see if any ports are blocked, but I know that UDP 51820 (Wireguard) is open.

At least the Vegas place has IPv6 provided by the same ISP. I've got another place in greater Los Angeles with Frontier fiber. It costs more money for half the bandwidth, and they have NO IPv6 support, or any plans for IPv6 support. For that location, I use an HE IPv6 (RFC4312) tunnel, which generally works fine, except many websites such as YouTube require authentication before they provide content. They're probably countering the AI training bots, and have flagged the HE IPv6 blocks.

Re: Google Fiber is coming to Las Vegas

#230

So the FCC is going to let them spy on the last mile with no restrictions. Nice of Sundar to come back from DC with a gift.

Google Fiber has been in existence since 2012.

Yes and it’s not profitable enough to be worthwhile - unrestricted spying changes that.
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