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Gang crisis shaking Sweden

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Re: Gang crisis shaking Sweden

#221

Post by jacquesm »

patall wrote: post #145
mupuff1234 wrote: post #69

[flagged]

So what solution do you propose if no country takes these people back? Hopefully at some point conservatives will understand that you cannot make these people simply disappear.

> Hopefully at some point conservatives will understand that you cannot make these people simply disappear.

Oh, now you've done it. That's the bit you're not supposed to say out loud. You can make them simply disappear.

Geert Wilders here in NL, quite possibly our next prime minister (god forbid) has said exactly that: "fewer Moroccans". But he stopped just short of saying how he would like to accomplish that because that would be putting his cards on the table. Hopefully enough Dutch people remember some of their history classes in the coming week.

Re: Gang crisis shaking Sweden

#222

Post by carlosjobim »

alephnerd wrote: post #185
carlosjobim wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If people there are such jerks, why do you want to be in their country, or have day-to-day conversations with them? What gives you the right as a foreigner to force "persistent societal change" in a country on the other side of the world? Haven't Americans violently tried that already in a whole bunch of different places? > if you don't fit a specific trope you can't be Swedish. Swedes are an ethnic group, you can't…

> why do you want to be in their country I didn't. Blame my employer for sending me there to lead a CAB for our Northern Europe customers. I've always hated traveling to Northern Europe. At least in Italy or Greece I can pass as $Southern_European American so I don't get stink eye. > you can't be Swedish unless you're born Swedish So how does a non-ethnic Swede who has been living in Sweden their entire life and with…

> I didn't. Blame my employer for sending me there to lead a CAB for our Northern Europe customers. I've always hated traveling to Northern Europe. At least in Italy or Greece I can pass as $Southern_European American so I don't get stink eye.

Fair enough, then it's work and at least you aren't stuck there forever having to try to make friends.

> So how does a non-ethnic Swede who has been living in Sweden their entire life and with Swedish citizenship become fully Swedish?

He or she will never be Swedish at all. Just as the thousands of Western missionaries who went to China never became Chinese in the slightest, even if they learnt the language and picked up the customs. The person will always be a foreigner. If they have a child with a Swede, that child will be half-Swedish and so on.

Assimilation is a whole different thing. But if the Swedes don't want to welcome foreigners to equal positions of influence, that is their decision. Most of the countries in the world have official policies and laws to limit the influence and the rights of immigrants – including the US.

> This is the crux of the issue. If you aren't given a chance to assimilate, there's no reason to.

Rather, if you aren't given a chance to assimilate, you shouldn't come. If I'm treated rudely as a guest in somebody's house, I'll excuse myself.

Re: Gang crisis shaking Sweden

#223

Post by oblio »

nickdothutton wrote: post #136

I’ve watched this story grow over the last decades or so. There is no gang problem, its just a conspiracy theory/propaganda. There is a gang problem but it’s overstated. There is a serious gang problem. There is a serious gang problem but it’s bikers. There is a serious gang problem, OK, it’s not bikers. There is a serious gang problem, it’s immigrants and immigrant descended Swedes, but it’s Sweden’s fault for not i…

What are the next phases?

Re: Gang crisis shaking Sweden

#224

Post by jacquesm »

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #220
Dah00n wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is "specific type of immigrants" your codeword for Muslims? Sounds a tad xenophobic to me.

In context, it's the kind of immigrant who doesn't want to assimilate, but who would rather form a gang with friends from the old country. If you interpret that as being a codeword for Muslims, either you're projecting, or (too many) Muslims actually are that kind of immigrant. The US has this problem, too. Quite a lot of "that kind of immigrant" to the US are not Muslims.

> who would rather form a gang with friends from the old country

Given how the people from the host country tend to ostracize them even if they try to integrate: what else should they do?

Re: Gang crisis shaking Sweden

#225

Post by someDevFella23 »

giraffe_lady wrote: post #184
someDevFella23 wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel in both my European countries I can voice with most anyone all the concerns I have. They share them for the most part but at least will be open to discuss if not. But with my American friends and colleagues I feel I could risk my reputation and have it affect my career. It’s sad to see really.

[flagged]

No we’re not at all. ironic how you can group like 30 countries together there and call them all racist

Acknowledging that some cultures are not compatible with ours is not racist. Acknowledging that some that come to Europe do not value European values or way of life is not racist. I’m my experience with Europeans we can discuss this difference openly. In my experience I am weary with being honest with Americans

Re: Gang crisis shaking Sweden

#226

Post by SenAnder »

arp242 wrote: post #91
fintechie wrote: post #77

Hungary and Slovakia, the only European countries that haven't allowed illegal immigration in, are at the bottom of that chart, while Sweden is getting rekt... Legal immigration is of course fine and necessary, as long as the state and socials systems can assimilate it... (Japan is a good example). But articles like this show concerning data points in western countries with uncontrolled migratory policies.

That charts paints a rather skewed picture by only focusing on firearms rather than murder overall. This is not a bad thing to highlight, but you should absolutely not confuse the two. Looking at [1], murder rate in Slovakia is comparable, and Hungary only slightly lower. Sweden isn't even near the top murder rate in the EU, and a number of other countries which accepted a large number of refugees have lower murder r…

The most relevant figures would be homicide rate by perpetrator country of origin. Allegedly, 85% of shooting suspects are 1st or 2nd generation immigrants [0].

But reliable figures are hard to come by, partly because if scientists, even accidentally, find that, e.g., most rapes are committed by immigrants, they get prosecuted (eventually the charges were dropped, because they couldn't prove "bad intentions", negligence, or carelessness) [1,2,3,4].

The other reason is that, though Sweden used to collect data about criminal's ethnic background, they stopped I think in 2005 [5]. Though it seems they've resumed - in searching for sources for this post, I found https://emilkirkegaard.dk/en/2021/11/sweden-finally-publishe...

[0] https://www.thefp.com/p/two-bombings-in-one-night-thats-norm...

[1] https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/20961790.2020.1...

[2] https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-45269764

[3] https://www.opindia.com/2021/11/sweden-lund-university-resea...

[4] https://lakartidningen.se/aktuellt/nyheter/2023/06/aklagare-...

[5] https://www.thelocal.se/20180508/why-sweden-doesnt-keep-stat...

Re: Gang crisis shaking Sweden

#227

Post by AdrianB1 »

throwawaaarrgh wrote: post #139
mupuff1234 wrote: post #69

[flagged]

That's quite the corkscrew you've turned yourself into just to say you don't trust Muslims. If you really believe it then just say it.

I grew up in a Muslim country (a nice one, btw). They were not trusting most neighboring Muslim countries and the people from those countries. They know what they know and act accordingly.

In my native country, people did not like Gypsies (that was quite a long time ago, now it's no longer the case). This is because of the quantity of negative experiences with them, not because they are of a certain race or religion. The situation changed a lot when the number of negative incidents decreased, which confirms that the criminality is the factor, not something else.

Re: Gang crisis shaking Sweden

#228

Post by zztop44 »

searealist wrote: post #213
zztop44 wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So quite a while after the peak in immigration in the mid/late 2010s.

Sweden murder rate over time, it trends down until the mid 2010s: https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/SWE/sweden/murder-homi...

That chart shows a steady rate up to 2005, a decline from 2005-2012 and then a rise back to the previous level between 2012 and 2015, and steady at the previous level since then. The big spike in Syrian immigration started around 2015-2016. Based on these numbers, I’d say these two factors (immigration and murder) appear to be unrelated.

Re: Gang crisis shaking Sweden

#229

Post by lispm »

RockCoach wrote: post #172
lispm wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estimated_number_of_civilian_g...

What are you trying to say?

Germany has basically as many privately owned guns as sweden per capita. Germany is nearer to the Balkans. It hosts a million people from a war country (Ukraine). There are lots of illegal weapons.

One important difference between Germany and Sweden: youth unemployment is much much lower in Germany.

Similar developments as in Sweden can be seen in the Netherlands, due to the drug trade.

Background to the situation in Sweden: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/aug/27/sweden-seeks-t...

But generally the homicide rate in Sweden is very low (~ 1/6 of the US), Germany a bit lower, still.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intention...

Re: Gang crisis shaking Sweden

#230

Post by TrackerFF »

For too long, there has been this apathetic "well, if I'm not a gangster, then why should I care?" mentality, because up until lately the crime has been localized to people in the gangs. Gang members killing other gang members, basically.

Even in the no-go areas, you're pretty safe walking around as a civilian. You'd expect those areas (in Sweden) to look like war zones, where the citizens and bystanders are locked up all day, in fear of moving out. Yeah, not so much - the areas are very much "boring" suburban areas.

But, alas, then the gangs started to bomb and shoot up apartments of rivals and their families. Suddenly you're not all that safe, because what if your neighbor turns out to be the second cousin of some local gangbanger?

With that said, all this roots in piss-poor integration. The gang members aren't first generation immigrants, we're talking at least second gen - even third generation.

And like all other organization, be that crime, terrorism, or whatever - they prey on the kids that have fallen outside the system.

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