Ironically those who are exhibiting the greatest outrage about the situation in Ukraine out of their deep concern for human rights are the ones cheering loudest for the pogrom against ethnic Russians around the world.
Norway Chess cancels Alexander Grischuk
221–230 of 263 posts
Re: Norway Chess cancels Alexander Grischuk
#222Earlier quoted context omitted.
I found https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/03/world/europe/chess-russia... much more though thoughtful than Cowen. Clearly, Tyler Cowen has his reasons for framing this issue in an inflammatory way. I suspect he didn't seek out any 44 open letter signatories for their feelings. I simply see no way of keeping out Karjakin in an equitable way. I am tired of repeating myself about how I hate this situation, but the victims…
> I am tired of repeating myself about how I hate this situation, but the victims are not Russian grandmasters, they are Ukrainian children. Nobody in this thread has denied that Ukrainian children are victims, and nobody has disagreed that there should be a reaction. What people are questioning is who should be targeted by this reaction, and with what actions. Your stance, as I read it, is everyone who is Russian, b…
If a man murders someone, the victim's family sues and win, and as a result the murder's children are economically deprived... everyone comes out worse than before. But who is at fault and what is the equitable outcome?
Re: Norway Chess cancels Alexander Grischuk
#223Earlier quoted context omitted.
> the person is representing Russia It's not a team sport. One would think chess players represent themselves.
Most sports are not team sports, yet sportsmen represent their countries.
No, that is only true in an event such as the Olympics where the team is officially sanctioned and determined by their country. A random individual does not represent their country whether they are playing a sport, working a job, or doing anything else - they represent themselves.
Re: Norway Chess cancels Alexander Grischuk
#224This is getting really stupid. Anytime there is some major event we always work to try to ensure that people appreciate there is a difference between the people of a country and the bad actors of a country - even when those bad actors are the government. But now because it's our favorite geopolitical enemy, everything goes out the window. Imagine if the victims of our wars (or their partners) were more influential an…
I don't understand the people who object to these tactics. It would simply be a good thing if Americans were reviled for waging wars of aggression on other states. That would mean fewer people in the US would support wars and there would be fewer wars. That would be good. It's at least worth a shot. Adam Smith wrote - "In great empires the people who live in the capital, and in the provinces remote from the scene of…
>I don't understand the people who object to these tactics.
So after 9/11, should we have sanctioned all Muslims? When a black man commits a crime, should we round up and sanction all blacks? We are all entirely responsible for what we do as individuals and not responsible at all for what other people do.
Re: Norway Chess cancels Alexander Grischuk
#225Gotta love how discrimination is so easily spread. Like, this guy has said very many times in public that he doesn’t support the invasion, but he’s Russian, y’know? It’s sad how humanity just keeps doing the same thing over and over…
Agreed - I can't believe how quickly the "mainstream" had adopted a hatred basically of a whole people based on the actions of an autocratic leader that does not represent them, and where speaking out would almost certainly have very bad consequences. We should be doing everything we can to stop Putin from waging war, but casual hatred of a group is not helpful or appropriate, even if it's the obvious extension of al…
As a Muslim.. I can lmao
Re: Norway Chess cancels Alexander Grischuk
#226Earlier quoted context omitted.
I found https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/03/world/europe/chess-russia... much more though thoughtful than Cowen. Clearly, Tyler Cowen has his reasons for framing this issue in an inflammatory way. I suspect he didn't seek out any 44 open letter signatories for their feelings. I simply see no way of keeping out Karjakin in an equitable way. I am tired of repeating myself about how I hate this situation, but the victims…
> I am tired of repeating myself about how I hate this situation, but the victims are not Russian grandmasters, they are Ukrainian children. Nobody in this thread has denied that Ukrainian children are victims, and nobody has disagreed that there should be a reaction. What people are questioning is who should be targeted by this reaction, and with what actions. Your stance, as I read it, is everyone who is Russian, b…
[deleted]
Re: Norway Chess cancels Alexander Grischuk
#227Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I am tired of repeating myself about how I hate this situation, but the victims are not Russian grandmasters, they are Ukrainian children. Nobody in this thread has denied that Ukrainian children are victims, and nobody has disagreed that there should be a reaction. What people are questioning is who should be targeted by this reaction, and with what actions. Your stance, as I read it, is everyone who is Russian, b…
If a man murders someone, the victim's family sues and win, and as a result the murder's children are economically deprived... everyone comes out worse than before. But who is at fault and what is the equitable outcome?
> If a man murders someone, the victim's family sues and win, and as a result the murder's children are economically deprived...
Sorry but this is not accurate. This would be more accurate: a man is in the process of murdering hostages, so we hurt his children to make him stop.
The sanctions are not "justice", they are pressure tools to make Russia stop the invasion. There cannot be any justice until the crime (the war) is stopped.
> everyone comes out worse than before. But who is at fault and what is the equitable outcome?
There is no equitable outcome, and it is not a betrayal of the victim to feel empathy for the murderer's children.
Re: Norway Chess cancels Alexander Grischuk
#228Earlier quoted context omitted.
What is the purpose of the ban? Is it really doing anything to undermine Russia’s leadership? My guess is that this harms chess players who happen to be Russian but who have no control over the government and doesn’t do anything to hinder the actual Russian government in any meaningful way.
The purpose of the ban is to weaken and undermine the Putin regime. Of course it is unfortunate for the players not getting to play a chess match, but if this ban (along with all the other economic and cultural sanctions) shorten the war by just a day, surely that sacrifice would be well worth it.
Perhaps I’m missing something but I really don’t see _how_ banning chess players shortens a war that those same chess players have no control over.
Re: Norway Chess cancels Alexander Grischuk
#229This is getting really stupid. Anytime there is some major event we always work to try to ensure that people appreciate there is a difference between the people of a country and the bad actors of a country - even when those bad actors are the government. But now because it's our favorite geopolitical enemy, everything goes out the window. Imagine if the victims of our wars (or their partners) were more influential an…
I don't understand the people who object to these tactics. It would simply be a good thing if Americans were reviled for waging wars of aggression on other states. That would mean fewer people in the US would support wars and there would be fewer wars. That would be good. It's at least worth a shot. Adam Smith wrote - "In great empires the people who live in the capital, and in the provinces remote from the scene of…
The term you are looking for is "collective punishment"
Re: Norway Chess cancels Alexander Grischuk
#230Earlier quoted context omitted.
Are you obsessed with Israel or something? This isn't the first time I've seen your comments about Israel, and your submission history is just full of this topic. Israel isn't "bombing Palestinies for decades". They're fighting back when Palestinians attack them (why did you gloss over Palestinians bombing Israel?), then there's quiet for a while, and then more fighting. The Israeli/Palestinian relationship is very c…
1) Accusation of obsession with Israel - check 2) Classic both siding with a cute "we're just defending" and leaving out the constant colonisation and ethnic cleansing campaigns & apartheid[0] - check 3) "it's complicated" - check (it's not remotely complicated, plain old settler colonialism) The 1990s called, they want their hasbara back. [0] https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2022/02/israels-apart...
It's actually not plain old settler colonialism because Jewish people are also the "indigenous" inhabitants of those lands - but instead of sharing them with the non-Jewish indigenous inhabitants (now called the "Palestinians") the militant Zionists have declared a "Jewish State" where they systematically discriminate against Palestinians (e.g. no right of return for non-Jews & hardly any building permits for non-Jews in the West Bank).
Regarding bombings & war crimes, they have indeed been done by both sides. The crimes of Palestinian terrorists are obvious, but there is widespread denial & attempted justification of the IDF's crimes, hence the topic generates a lot of writing & debate. Examples of IDF crimes are the bombing of houses with many children in assassination missions (these are obviously not preceded by warning phone-calls) [0], and the shooting of Palestinian protestors at the Gaza fence who do not pose a risk to the lives of IDF soldiers.[1] The data ([2]) also speaks for itself.
[0]: https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/gaza-israel-wiping-entir...
[1]: https://theintercept.com/2018/04/10/gaza-protests-palestine-...
[2]: https://statistics.btselem.org/en/all-fatalities/by-date-of-...