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Advice to new managers: don't joke about firing people

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Re: Advice to new managers: don't joke about firing people

#221
post #36

Similarly, marriage protip: Don't joke about divorces. Even if you think your partner can handle it. Mine can and we still don't do it, as policy. It's a known policy, too; we mentioned it to each other before (briefly, a long time ago, not as some big event). This is certainly far from "the one key to a happy marriage!", but it's a brick in the house. It generally fits into the larger social IQ element of thinking a…

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Re: Advice to new managers: don't joke about firing people

#222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have a citation for this phenomenon you claim wrt higher level performers?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impostor_syndrome "... five subgroups this syndrome often falls into. - The perfectionist - The superwoman/man - The natural genius - The soloist - The expert"

See also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect

Re: Advice to new managers: don't joke about firing people

#223
post #14

This is along the lines of "Ha, taking half the day off, are we?" when somebody leaves a little bit earlier than usual. It sounds like (just) a bad joke, but it has severe consequences for your working relationship. I get that it's tempting to make jokes when you start managing for your old team members. Just accept the fact that you've switched positions and that your relationship will change. It will only make it m…

This is why, if I ever manage, my focus will be on timely deliverables and not on time-at-desk. Give me a day when you think you can deliver something, update me as soon as you realize you can't ("manage expectations"), and do whatever you want with the rest of your time...

That is more or less what my current manager does. He's the best that I've worked with.

Re: Advice to new managers: don't joke about firing people

#224
post #129
post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's really what you took from this? Is it possible in your mind there may be some usefulness from the admonition to new managers in the blog post in treating people with bare minimum decency in not joking about firing them, even if one were to frame it differently, or is this what you've decided is the only possible takeaway here? That people are easily offended? I'm not offended by the comment, just kind of amuse…

What you need to understand is that cultures are different, if I have a manager that doesn't get close to employees being friendly and joking even with black humour my co-workers are going to talk behind saying he is dull and unfriendly. But probably you are american and you don't even get irony nor sarcasm, you see, a joke ;) And my point still stands, in 21st century people is getting so easily offended like if we…

I understand quite well the nuances that exist from one culture to the next, but I still feel the need to stand by my point and agree with the author: if you're a manager, maybe don't joke around about terminating people from their jobs-even in jest we don't know what mental faculties that kind of "joke" will activate in the recipients mind and it's best to just eschew these comments altogether because it's just prudent and decent behavior for someone looked to as a leader, and leaders don't actively or deliberately make commentary that stigmatize those under their ward.

So on the one hand, sure, cultures are different between workplaces and industries, on the other hand, I really don't need anyone making smarmy assessment about my nationality or making insinuations about people of my nationality and our ability to comprehend irony and sarcasm to empathetically intuit the point made in the article.

Re: Advice to new managers: don't joke about firing people

#225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> is quite possible that someone you manage doesn't know where they stand with you Higher level performers tend to disproportionately believe then need to improve so they tend to take group jokes or threats of termination much more seriously than underperformers. Be very very careful making groups statements and jokes about performance and firings. It’s a fast track to losing high performers who leave because they st…

Do you have a citation for this phenomenon you claim wrt higher level performers?

One qualifying segment is the rarer over performing subset of Dunning-Kruger personalities. That is people who accurately measure their own performance but do not accurately measure their peers and thus improperly devalue themselves in comparison. To compensate for that improper devaluation these people will attempt to over perform in an effort to feel comparable.

Under that condition it is anticipated these people will take criticism and risks with a greater degree of personal sensitivity.

Re: Advice to new managers: don't joke about firing people

#226
post #5

I am really surprised one has to write a blog post about this. I am not a manager, but here is a question for managers, have you or anyone you know, joked about firing someone? In my opinion, that would be incredibly cruel and stupid.

Not sure if this blog post should or should not be written, but having seen many managers bootstrapping themselves out of individual contributor roles; you have to learn somewhere. Blog posts are just one avenue.

Re: Advice to new managers: don't joke about firing people

#227
post #24

The basic rule of comedy, or making jokes, which is amateur comedy, is that you always punch up. It’s funny when you say “ha! you’re fired!” to your boss, but never when you say it to someone you can actually fire. Same reason why parents (should) never joke about punishment or disciplinary action with their kids - when you have power and authority you also have a responsibility not to belittle it. People will take y…

Don't know if I agree with "never" punching down, but I wanted to share a poignant example of what punching down poorly looks like:

https://twitter.com/davejorgenson/status/1269288466493341696

Wayne Brady and Aisha Taylor handled this extremely well, but I'm glad he stood his ground and didn't smile and laugh along, despite the situational pressure to.

Re: Advice to new managers: don't joke about firing people

#228
post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I noticed that. Who was that comic, who got Netflix special and made some sensitive jokes and the only complaint I heard was 'well, I guess some find it funny, but he really is punching down'.

I think I heard that about David Chappelle's Netflix special.

Yes, that's correct. In his case, specific quotes were selectively disclosed and context on his overall point (whether you agree with it or not) was completely lost in the process.

Most modern successful comedians are not known for one-liners. Selectively quoting through text/audio/video effectively reduces all comedians' material to one-liners and completely eliminates all the nuance and context of the original performance piece.

Re: Advice to new managers: don't joke about firing people

#229

Early in my career, a manager once had me repeat to him that I would be terminated if I failed to do X, like I was a 5-year-old. X was referring to a technical implementation detail that he had zero understanding of. He read something in a blog post I guess. My reaction was to act like it was a fun joke or something. But inside, I absolutely loathed him every second of every day until I quit, and now I take great sat…

How about saying, “please don’t joke about firing me?” Feedback is a 2-way street and people aren’t mind readers.

This disregards the power imbalance -- lots of employees (especially junior ones) are not comfortable being so firm with their managers.

Re: Advice to new managers: don't joke about firing people

#230
post #5

I am really surprised one has to write a blog post about this. I am not a manager, but here is a question for managers, have you or anyone you know, joked about firing someone? In my opinion, that would be incredibly cruel and stupid.

It is probably a regional humor thing but with so much mobility these days it's hard to use your regional humor without offending people.

In some places you can ask "Are you smoking crack?" when someone suggests something silly or wrong. In other places that would be very wrong.

In some places certain words are insults and other places they're euphemisms.

Some places tolerate or encourage "harmless" sexual innuendo, others do not.

I have had employees that would appreciate a joke about performance or firing so long as it was obvious that it wasn't a veiled threat. I've had employees who that would probably have them working on finding another job. I'm not the type to joke about that, but I know who would appreciate it and who wouldn't.

Edit: typo

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