How Popular Is “Sign in with Apple”? • Hacker News Board

Re: How Popular Is “Sign in with Apple”?

#221

Post by comex » Tue, Jan 28, 2020, 10:33 PM UTC

bcyn wrote: post #199

pwinnski wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By default, supporting one means supporting the other, but in practice, several large chain stores deliberately disabled ApplePay specifically at first, hoping to choke it off. That seems to have failed, and I can't remember the last time I saw a place that took contactless payment but not ApplePay, but it was a thing for a while.

Do you know of a source where I can read more about this (particularly about the stores disabling Apple Pay)? I'm interested in learning more. I was under the impression that any terminal that accepted contactless payments would also work with ApplePay.

https://www.macrumors.com/2014/10/25/cvs-disabling-nfc-apple... mentions Rite Aid and CVS disabling all contactless payments, after previously supporting them, shortly after Apple Pay launched.

Re: How Popular Is “Sign in with Apple”?

#222

Post by WA » Tue, Jan 28, 2020, 10:35 PM UTC

ehsankia wrote: post #59

habosa wrote: post #41

I tried to do a Sign in with Apple integration on Android (wanted the app to have the same options across platforms). Testing on Android was next to impossible. To test I needed an Apple ID with 2FA. But SMS 2FA was not good enough, you need the hardware-based 2FA. To get that you need a recent macOS or iOS device. As an Android developer I have no reason to own either of those. Eventually I just had a friend who own…

Apple continues to not give any care whatsoever to anything outside their walled garden. For the longest time you couldn't even preview songs on iTunes store without having iTunes. Want to watch their biggest WWDC live? Had to use Safari until last year. Obviously iMessage and FaceTime are complete no-gos outside their walled garden too. This is how they keep people in. They have to close down their walls as tightly…

> This is how they keep people in.

But sometimes, it also keeps iOS users out of stuff. For example, in Germany, Android has a market share of 70%. Hence, iMessage is useless here, because the majority can’t be reached. Thus, WhatsApp has the biggest market share for messaging services.

Now, it probably doesn’t matter for Apple, but it prevents the iMessage experience for most iPhone users in Germany, because it’s kinda useless here. I guess the same is true for most European countries.

Re: How Popular Is “Sign in with Apple”?

#223

Post by munk-a » Tue, Jan 28, 2020, 10:39 PM UTC

dylan604 wrote: post #161

eugeniub wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to be that guy but you can get a used iPhone SE for $75, and it should last you a couple years for testing purposes.

Really, you need an iPhone model with each of the iOS versions you want to support on that hardware. If you want to go back to iOS11 up to current, then you need that many devices. Otherwise, because it works on that hardware and iOS combo doesn't mean it will work on a different combo. So it's $75 multiplied by the number of variations you want to support. It adds up quickly. As others have stated, it's just part of…

And you can't forget - you need to get at least one with the silly notch in it.

Oh, and don't even consider emulators - the iOS device emulators are trash.

Re: How Popular Is “Sign in with Apple”?

#224

Post by FabHK » Tue, Jan 28, 2020, 10:40 PM UTC

ehsankia wrote: post #59

habosa wrote: post #41

I tried to do a Sign in with Apple integration on Android (wanted the app to have the same options across platforms). Testing on Android was next to impossible. To test I needed an Apple ID with 2FA. But SMS 2FA was not good enough, you need the hardware-based 2FA. To get that you need a recent macOS or iOS device. As an Android developer I have no reason to own either of those. Eventually I just had a friend who own…

Apple continues to not give any care whatsoever to anything outside their walled garden. For the longest time you couldn't even preview songs on iTunes store without having iTunes. Want to watch their biggest WWDC live? Had to use Safari until last year. Obviously iMessage and FaceTime are complete no-gos outside their walled garden too. This is how they keep people in. They have to close down their walls as tightly…

> And once you're in, they make it as hard as possible to leave.

Nonsense. On my Mac, I can export all my pictures from Photos as jpeg (or several other formats); contacts as .vcf; calendars as .ics; documents in several portable formats; my music is in iTunes as (unencumbered) mp3 or m4a, nicely organised by Artists and Albums; emails are in traditional .mbox files, unless I'm mistaken, but at any rate mailboxes can be exported; even Messages are available in some directory in the Library folder, though in an ugly XML-y format; etc.

I don't know how easy other OSes make it to "leave", but you can't really argue that Apple is trying to make it hard (except by making the garden more beautiful, safe, and well organised than the others).

Re: How Popular Is “Sign in with Apple”?

#225

Post by denkmoon » Tue, Jan 28, 2020, 10:42 PM UTC

StavrosK wrote: post #214

coldtea wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is how they keep people in. They have to close down their walls as tightly as possible, to force people in. And once you're in, they make it as hard as possible to leave. I call old wives tales. I'm a close-to-20-years Apple user. The walled garden has never been a problem, more of a strength (integration, cohesion, etc). Especially today where everything is a subscription, there has never been LESS of a walle…

> My music is in Spotify and Apple Music, my video is Netflix and Amazon Prime and Apple+ Does Spotify somehow integrate with Apple Music and Netflix with Apple+? Because, if not, your counterargument is just "there's no walled garden because I'm outside it". Spotify, Netflix, Google, Kindle, etc work on both platforms. Apple stuff doesn't. That's the definition of "walled garden", that you can't use Android and stil…

FWIW Apple Music does work on android, reasonably well too. I switched to that when it became apparent that Google Play Music is a dead product, soon to be sent to the glue factory.

Re: How Popular Is “Sign in with Apple”?

#226

Post by munk-a » Tue, Jan 28, 2020, 10:44 PM UTC

mobilemidget wrote: post #124

clay_the_ripper wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re an engineer who wants to implement Apple features, yet you don’t want to spend maybe, what, $200 for a test phone? These kinds of complaints are really irritating and disingenuous. My interpretation is that you’re more interested in complaining and finding problems than just buying a test phone and being done with it. It’s not that hard.

Well to be fair he wanted the app to have the same options everywhere. So regardless if he had a test iPhone, he wanted apple sign in to work on android. And probably vice versa too, google login on iPhone. Personally not a fan of either, separate email/passwords everywhere is what I prefer. But I cant say I have come across a non-apple service/site that offered apple login.

For the purposes of authentication the closest equivalent Android side is "Sign in with Google" which can be done with 0 dollars and is a pretty straightforward and well documented API call that has specific SDK support in a lot of languages and settings.

Re: How Popular Is “Sign in with Apple”?

#227

Post by nemothekid » Tue, Jan 28, 2020, 10:44 PM UTC

miloignis wrote: post #203

coldtea wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is how they keep people in. They have to close down their walls as tightly as possible, to force people in. And once you're in, they make it as hard as possible to leave. I call old wives tales. I'm a close-to-20-years Apple user. The walled garden has never been a problem, more of a strength (integration, cohesion, etc). Especially today where everything is a subscription, there has never been LESS of a walle…

I feel like reason you can move is because you haven't put all your eggs in their walled garden, not that they don't have one. I know people who either won't or have regretted switching from an iPhone because they have trouble talking to their friend who only use iMessage. I think Apple is only increasing their walled garden into more areas by expanding into music streaming, TV, etc. You can still use their hardware…

>iMessage makes me fairly angry because they're using & dividing people's social connections for profit.

Can you point me to a company that doesn't do this? I would think "but $hardware to use $network" is preferable to "use $network for free, but sell everything you put on the $network"

Re: How Popular Is “Sign in with Apple”?

#228

Post by raisedbyninjas » Tue, Jan 28, 2020, 10:48 PM UTC

comex wrote: post #219

gamblor956 wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

in practice, several large chain stores deliberately disabled ApplePay specifically at first, hoping to choke it off. This is FUD spread by Apple after poor uptake of Apple Pay. The reality is that many retail chains and restaurants either hadn't enabled the NFC chips in their payment terminals, or were using old terminals that didn't even have NFC functionality, and thus did not work with Apple Pay. Retailers that s…

According to news reports from the time, both Rite Aid and CVS initially supported NFC payments (at least at some locations), then proceeded to disable them shortly after Apple Pay launched: https://www.macrumors.com/2014/10/25/cvs-disabling-nfc-apple...

CVS, Walmart & many others created CurrentC to avoid the CC merchant fees through a NFC & ACH scheme instead. CurrentC failed by 2016, which is probably when CVS started accepting Google Pay and Apple Pay again.

Re: How Popular Is “Sign in with Apple”?

#229

Post by noelsusman » Tue, Jan 28, 2020, 10:57 PM UTC

rubyn00bie wrote: post #218

miloignis wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like reason you can move is because you haven't put all your eggs in their walled garden, not that they don't have one. I know people who either won't or have regretted switching from an iPhone because they have trouble talking to their friend who only use iMessage. I think Apple is only increasing their walled garden into more areas by expanding into music streaming, TV, etc. You can still use their hardware…

iMessage is the greatest thing to happen to text messaging since text messaging itself. I refuse to use any Facebook owned product to communicate; so, that pretty much only leaves me SMS and iMessage. I think you should be pissed at bottom barrel Android manufacturers putting shitty messaging interfaces on Android phones more than Apple for having a good messaging system.

iMessage has done more to hold back messaging in the US than anything else. Even if Google was competent at messaging it wouldn't matter because iOS users wouldn't switch and Apple refuses to open up iMessage to non-Apple devices.

I'm still using SMS for most of my messaging, and I primarily blame Apple for that.

Re: How Popular Is “Sign in with Apple”?

#230

Post by bobwaycott » Tue, Jan 28, 2020, 11:13 PM UTC

criley2 wrote: post #97

dep_b wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As an Android developer I have no reason to own either of those. Of course you do: Please implement this iOS application/feature in Android . Not being able to run an application from Xcode onto an iOS device severely hampers your career. I have to deal with so many Android developers and their output I absolutely cannot afford the luxury to not run Android apps from Android Studio. I don't think Sign In With Apple…

This isn't really a fair comparison because any OSX user can just download and run Android studio for free, while your average Android programmer would require over a thousand dollars (to get a bottom-level Apple device with the worst specifications, or closer to two thousand+ to get competitive hardware) and then a yearly subscription to XCode at $100/year, and that's without having any actual iPhones to test on as…

> ... and frankly most indie developers can't shell out potentially several thousand dollars on OSX/iOS devices and licenses just to do some testing ...

Sounds like these so-called “indie devs” who cannot afford to build for iOS devices should not tackle projects/clients that require building for iOS. Or, if a client is in the mix, bill the client a large enough fee to cover the cost of testing on real devices. That’s not a problem Apple is responsible for solving.

I would never rely on developing, testing, and releasing an Android app on a simulator alone. I don’t want to buy a bunch of Android devices. So I don’t take on work that is meant for Android, or I hire people who can properly test on devices. Pretty simple—and it’s both my choice and a matter of professional responsibility and accountability to ship work I can stand behind.

Apple isn’t going to change any time soon. I’m so tired of the disingenuous moaning from “indie devs” who want to take on projects for and make money from iOS, but can’t be bothered to get over their own personal anti-Apple feelings to buy a device.

The ecosystem of Apple devices are hardware and software. The simulators and build tools are never enough. You wouldn’t ship an app for Apple Watch without testing it on a watch, would you? Or would you ship it relying only on having one friend with an Apple Watch test it? Sounds lazy and unprofessional—and if an indie dev can’t do the job right, they shouldn’t take on the job.