Google drops plans for Berlin campus after protests • Hacker News Board

Re: Google drops plans for Berlin campus after protests

#221

Post by jtolmar » Sat, Oct 27, 2018, 7:24 PM UTC

sonnyblarney wrote: post #195

SideburnsOfDoom wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> help diversify the tech ecosystem in Berlin and give them access to facilities and other resources. Another way of looking at that, is "gentrify the vibrant neighbourhood by trucking in techbros to displace the artists". It's not new (1) I don't necessarily agree with that framing, but it is understandable and coherent, not a misunderstanding 1) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18282143

"gentrify the vibrant neighbourhood by trucking in techbros to displace the artists" Or bring very high paying jobs that Germany desperately needs, and allow great students to actually do something with their education, which would in turn enable a poor neighbourhood to thrive with ancilliary businesses, restaurants, taxis etc. etc..

Gentrification doesn't benefit the people who actually live there. The block gets nicer buildings and more services, but land isn't people. People in poor neighborhoods rent, so when the cost of the neighborhood goes up they just lose money until they leave, and take on the costs of moving themselves. This is pure downside for them, of course they'd be against it.

Re: Google drops plans for Berlin campus after protests

#222

Post by amanaplanacanal » Sat, Oct 27, 2018, 7:32 PM UTC

xapata wrote: post #205

eigenvector wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The mutual exclusivity is valid. Being able to do stuff that requires a lot of time and doesn't make a lot of money (i.e. art) requires a low cost of living. Adding a bunch of people making $200k+ into a neighbourhood does the opposite of that, very rapidly and very predictably.

If you want to be a professional artist, you need people to buy your art -- patrons. In cities without a large number of wealthy people (passing through, if not resident), there aren't many art galleries. Artists often live in different districts or even different cities than their gallerists, but they tend to appreciate their patrons.

This may not be relevant, but the great majority of artists will never be professional. Most do their art because they love it, and if they can make some money from it, that is just frosting.

Re: Google drops plans for Berlin campus after protests

#223

Post by StudentStuff » Sat, Oct 27, 2018, 9:28 PM UTC

sonnyblarney wrote: post #202

StudentStuff wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Amazon, Google, Facebook. Look at the castles they've built in Seattle, you aren't getting in unless you are an employee or are escorted by an employee. None of those companies need this level of security, and most other businesses you can literally wander into during office hours, but that is generally not the case with these three.

You are not allowed into any corporate office, in any city - unless you work there. Every company definitely has security, even small one's, and this has nothing to do with the FANGs. Try to waltz into the UBS or Deutchebank building and see if you can just wander around. Most banks have considerably more security than the FANGS and ever since 9/11 many NYC buildings have a ton of security. You need to get a visitors…

> You are not allowed into any corporate office, in any city - unless you work there.

Not sure what you've been exposed to, but having wandered many office towers up and down the west coast, vanishingly few have any form of security beyond perhaps a receptionist or a maintenance man who may harass you if requested to do so. Some do have elevators that attempt to enforce access control during certain hours, but this is generally a non-issue in the daytime.

> You need to get a visitors badge with a photo they take of you on the spot to simply go to a meeting in some towers in the US. You need 15 minutes just to get in.

This is an extremely rare request, and complying with it is consistently not worth it in my experience.

Re: Google drops plans for Berlin campus after protests

#224

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Oct 27, 2018, 11:35 PM UTC

amanaplanacanal wrote: post #222

xapata wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you want to be a professional artist, you need people to buy your art -- patrons. In cities without a large number of wealthy people (passing through, if not resident), there aren't many art galleries. Artists often live in different districts or even different cities than their gallerists, but they tend to appreciate their patrons.

This may not be relevant, but the great majority of artists will never be professional. Most do their art because they love it, and if they can make some money from it, that is just frosting.

[deleted]

Re: Google drops plans for Berlin campus after protests

#225

Post by xapata » Sat, Oct 27, 2018, 11:37 PM UTC

amanaplanacanal wrote: post #222

xapata wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you want to be a professional artist, you need people to buy your art -- patrons. In cities without a large number of wealthy people (passing through, if not resident), there aren't many art galleries. Artists often live in different districts or even different cities than their gallerists, but they tend to appreciate their patrons.

This may not be relevant, but the great majority of artists will never be professional. Most do their art because they love it, and if they can make some money from it, that is just frosting.

Not relevant, I think, because we're talking about professional artists. Anyone can be a hobbyist, including the gentrifiers.

Re: Google drops plans for Berlin campus after protests

#226

Post by askmike » Sun, Oct 28, 2018, 4:40 AM UTC

wbl wrote: post #200

mrzool wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The mutual exclusivity is naive at best. Your comment shows utter ignorance about what's happening — or already happened — in virtually every major city in every developed country.

How are Tokyo housing prices? Vienna's cost of living is kept down by large amounts of social housing, etc. Gentrification is a side effect of not building housing.

That's cherry picking, it's happening in virtually every major city in every developed country.

> Gentrification is a side effect of not building housing.

It's a much more complex than simply lack of housing. It's commonly described to neighborhoods, not cities.

Re: Google drops plans for Berlin campus after protests

#227

Post by rumcajz » Sun, Oct 28, 2018, 7:41 AM UTC

eigenvector wrote: post #185

pteredactyl wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The mutual exclusivity is naive at best. To me, it shows haters' level of intellect. And perhaps explains why they feel left out. They're attached to an ideal of what 'art' (additionally, activism[1]) should be. An outdated, 20th century one. I personally don't like Google. And I understand your framing is hypothetical. But why is tech framed the opposite of art? Why is tech equal to techbro? Yea there are always bad…

The mutual exclusivity is valid. Being able to do stuff that requires a lot of time and doesn't make a lot of money (i.e. art) requires a low cost of living. Adding a bunch of people making $200k+ into a neighbourhood does the opposite of that, very rapidly and very predictably.

As being from an artistic community and a programmer at the same time, I can empathize with both sides.

However, it should be pointed out that there are really two different programmer cultures. There the corporate one, and then there's, for lack of the better word, "open source" one. The latter is very close to artistic culture but very different from corporate culture. The people are working on what they love, they don't have much money, often they are in precarious situations. I've seen them sharing working space with artists, I've been at parties that mixed hackers and artists without any friction. I've seen self-help institutions meant to help the artists going out of their way to host some kind of strange hacking event.

Re: Google drops plans for Berlin campus after protests

#228

Post by mercer » Sun, Oct 28, 2018, 10:27 AM UTC

rumcajz wrote: post #227

eigenvector wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The mutual exclusivity is valid. Being able to do stuff that requires a lot of time and doesn't make a lot of money (i.e. art) requires a low cost of living. Adding a bunch of people making $200k+ into a neighbourhood does the opposite of that, very rapidly and very predictably.

As being from an artistic community and a programmer at the same time, I can empathize with both sides. However, it should be pointed out that there are really two different programmer cultures. There the corporate one, and then there's, for lack of the better word, "open source" one. The latter is very close to artistic culture but very different from corporate culture. The people are working on what they love, they…

One of the things I like (and sometimes hate) about HN is that it has a decent number of people from both those camps.

Re: Google drops plans for Berlin campus after protests

#229

Post by nullpunkt » Sun, Oct 28, 2018, 10:29 AM UTC

nkkollaw wrote: post #183

As cool as Berlin art is, so is a Google campus for tech people and business in general? If I picture a gentrification activist I think about a purple-haired kid that wouldn't get a job if his life depended on it, making people that might be interested and have the skills to work at Google miss an opportunity. On the other hand, Google could have picked another spot instead of giving up? How is it..?

fucking retard

Re: Google drops plans for Berlin campus after protests

#230

Post by mercer » Sun, Oct 28, 2018, 10:41 AM UTC

VonGallifrey wrote: post #216

sonnyblarney wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Berlin is big, and Germany is much bigger, and there are tons of places for artists. Even in Berlin.

The issue is that Google wanted to go to the very specific and small space in Berlin where tons of artists are. Berlin is "big" (although not as big as you might think), so why would Google need to be in Kreuzberg when it can be ANYWHERE else.

The main issue is that all the programmers want to live in Kreuzberg too...