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Employers will do almost anything to find workers except pay them more

latimes.com

221–230 of 451 posts

Re: Employers will do almost anything to find workers except pay them more

#221

And if you think it's bad, it's even worse in Europe. Taking the French example: I'm an freelancer, but I used to have a contract with an American company. They gave me 3x the salary most of my French colleagues would get, while keeping the exact same social advantages (they paid me through a French branch). However, to them, the salary was twice lower than what they would have paid for the same guy in the Valley. No…

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Re: Employers will do almost anything to find workers except pay them more

#222
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My example comes from Greece where I reside for the past 9 months. People owning touristic buisnesses on the islands are moaning about how much they need more staff and can't find any, and they are arguing why younger people tend to not work and just receive benefits instead of going to work. The argument here that they won't understand though is that, 1st they are paying very low. They are all willing to pay the min…

The thing you describe is the narrative of the evil capitalist owner exploiting poor workers. Here's a thought experiment - those (tourism businesses) owners are making lots of money, so why not create such a business yourself (maybe with help of some external capital) and pay better wages and treat your staff better and pay taxes? Your clients will be much happier with you while having to pay the same. Other capital…

Small business guy here. When abusive employment practices give you a competitive advantage and nothing stops you from doing them, you can indeed go and be virtuous and make less money for yourself and your business and lose all day long.

At the scale of publically held companies, your bossy evilness is virtue signalling that tells the market that you are viable in the era of Uber and Amazon. Right now, as things stand, wrecking things and your own employees is expected and you will get no support and no investment from breaking ranks. That's just how it is.

In my field, I ended up just flipping the table and switching to Patreon so I could dump free competitive product and better serve my own userbase. My income got literally decimated by this decision but has rebounded to about a third or half of what it would have been, but I'm totally exempt from having to behave like a vulture: it suits my market positioning quite well, though if I was a really serious threat to the market leaders in my sector, I'm pretty sure they would come up with a way to sabotage me. That's also why I MIT license: I can funnel good stuff to poor musicians if I also let already-rich people steal it in exchange for only publicity. The alternate is they steal it anyway but with no publicity, or simply try to wreck my operation so there's less competition.

The narrative of the evil capitalist overlord persists for good reason: in the absence of a working society it's down to power and power alone, and only winning and getting the most capital allows you to continue to win and get more capital. It's a feedback loop and there's no reason 'salaries would improve' barring outside interference, which is less likely by the year.

Go ahead and do your thought experiment, but it doesn't map to the real world of 2018. To survive you've got to think more disruptively: your axioms here are pretty naive. For instance, what is actually important: your clients being happy, or your clients paying more money?

Re: Employers will do almost anything to find workers except pay them more

#223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank god somebody said it. We are in the golden age of cheap travel and leisure, perhaps the golden age of all ages (and certainly of all past). People spend your easy money and enjoy youth IMO.

It doesn't really make sense to say it because it's not as if there's a general cultural tendency towards shrift. Most people aren't saving enough, what's the point in popularizing the message that we should continue on that same course?

Saving never really makes you happy, it makes you feel secure. Seeing a number in an account rise over the years is great, but also a constant reminder of money you’ll never get to touch until you are old and gray, if you even make it that far. And even if you do, what if the world of the future is no longer worth exploring or even living in?

Is it more important for people to feel happy, or secure?

Re: Employers will do almost anything to find workers except pay them more

#224
post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the UK the marginal tax rate between £100000-£123700 is 60% as you gradually lose your tax-free allowance, so even though the tax is technically 40%, you're losing another 20% at the other "end" of your income - https://eqinvestors.co.uk/library/avoiding-the-60-percent-ta... .. Admittedly this never means 50%+ of your entire salary is tax (you keep 59.6% net of even a £1M salary, for example) but is a real pain po…

Above 70k, you are supposed to start your own business and optimize your expenses through that. Despite recent squeezes on related practices, it's still much better. Not doing it, is basically a gift to the taxman.

Agreed, though I think it's even more a disincentive to pay yourself more than 100K, even if you're mostly on dividends, once you've already seen ~20% come off for corporation tax.

For third parties unfamiliar with the setup, to pay yourself those dividends that take you from £100k to £110k, you need to take £12500 of biz profit, then £2500 goes to corporation tax, then £6000 to the taxman in personal taxes, leaving you with £4000 from that initial £12500 profit(!) which "feels" like a 68% tax to, say, a contractor in that situation (note: I am not a contractor).

Re: Employers will do almost anything to find workers except pay them more

#225
post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you read this article? I'm in Europe and run into a message saying "Unfortunately, our website is currently unavailable in most European countries. We are engaged on the issue and committed to looking at options that support our full range of digital offerings to the EU market. We continue to identify technical compliance solutions that will provide all readers with our award-winning journalism." with the LA time…

Here you go: https://outline.com/vKj7vM Basically, whenever there's a website like this that annoys me, I just copy the URL and Outline it: outline.com/$url No clicking through annoying dialogs, or having to use a vpn.

which would appear to be a violation of their terms:

If someone else might own the copyright to it, don't submit it. Outline is for reading pages that:

* you own the rights to,

* is in the public domain,

* constitutes fair use, or

* you have consent of the copyright holder.

Re: Employers will do almost anything to find workers except pay them more

#226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

@rglullis: Well. There is social security, health care, retirement funds and there are taxes. Well: I gladly pay health insurance in Germany instead of having an American system. Could it be better - hell yes. There is so much bullshit being paid for and so much in the system is made to extract money. But first: taxes are not the culprit here. And second: Pay for healthcare in the US yourself and see what system you…

It is a false dichotomy. I don't mind the health insurance being mandatory, much like I don't mind people being forced to pay for car insurance if they drive a car. What I find absurd in Germany is that you pay based on your income, just that . I would accept it being factored in, but not being the sole metric to determine pay.

Anyone earning over €60k in Germany can opt for private health insurance.

Re: Employers will do almost anything to find workers except pay them more

#227
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My example comes from Greece where I reside for the past 9 months. People owning touristic buisnesses on the islands are moaning about how much they need more staff and can't find any, and they are arguing why younger people tend to not work and just receive benefits instead of going to work. The argument here that they won't understand though is that, 1st they are paying very low. They are all willing to pay the min…

Do you think that the owner(s) of the hotels shouldn't be compensated for the risk that they're taking by building and operating the property? There's a ton of risk associated with investing like that.

You mean the properties they now own for a decade? Those that are fully developed and barely require maintenance? The same properties that are fully insured even against natural disasters that obliterate them to their foundations?

Yeah, let's compensate them for being insured and at the worst case scenario lose 500 euros a month every now and then when a shadier employee comes around and leaves quickly. Poor them. Whatever will they do, 1 million euros a year can barely get your ends meet!

Re: Employers will do almost anything to find workers except pay them more

#228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Paying health insurance is apart from the income tax. So in this particular case your income tax money is not getting you anything in return, healthcare-wise. Worst in case of health insurance, the amount you pay is dependent on your income, not your actual actuarial risk. This means that, indeed, the healthy people working are subsidizing the costs of the ones "who don't give a flying toss". And don't get me started…

I consider "health insurance" to be somewhat of a scam, just less so in Europe than the U.S. I feel like I'm forced to pay into a black hole with no accountability. Don't know anything about Künstlersozialkasse - "artist social fund". Is that like a tax to (supposedly) support cultural activities..?

> I feel like I'm forced to pay into a black hole with no accountability.

Why exactly is it a black hole? Doctors need to be paid, too.

Re: Employers will do almost anything to find workers except pay them more

#229
post #147
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> All tech companies in Finland are like "We can't find enough competent coders!" and newspapers are publishing that as is. To me, if a tech company claims in a newspaper that it cannot find competent coders, to me it says that they are uncapable of detecting talent. Which means "we have a really incompetent human ressource team". This is clearly not something that I would like journalists to print if I were a compan…

>To me, if a tech company claims in a newspaper that it cannot find competent coders, to me it says that they are uncapable of detecting talent. Nah, you see the pattern in pretty much every first world country. 1. Government makes law protecting citizens saying companies must hire local unless as a last resort 2. Big tech companies post job listings with unreasonable qualification requirements, while offering wages…

Met a Indian in Sweden who was exploited in exactly that way. He made 27k while the market rate for a native with his skills would have been 40k at least. He got fed up with the bullshit and is now working on his PhD at a top university.

Re: Employers will do almost anything to find workers except pay them more

#230
post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is a false dichotomy. I don't mind the health insurance being mandatory, much like I don't mind people being forced to pay for car insurance if they drive a car. What I find absurd in Germany is that you pay based on your income, just that . I would accept it being factored in, but not being the sole metric to determine pay.

Most health insurances will give you benefits for staying healthy (e.g. visiting the gym or a nutritionist). Visiting the dentist at least once a year will also give you a benefit. There might be other stuff I can't think of right now. So income isn't the sole metric which determines the pay.

Please tell me how I can reduce my TK payment by showing them my gym membership, and I will be very grateful. No sarcasm here.

Also, as far as I know there is no benefit in going to the dentist, except as "We pay one dental check-up and one clean-up for year, more than that comes out of your pocket". That is at least what I was told when I went to the dentist.

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