Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Oracle refuses to accept pro-Google “fair use” verdict in API battle

arstechnica.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

221–230 of 344 posts

Re: Oracle refuses to accept pro-Google “fair use” verdict in API battle

#221

Post by binarycrusader »

jimnotgym wrote: post #197
binarycrusader wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're not dropping Solaris. They're instead changing the release model: https://blogs.oracle.com/solaris/entry/oracle_solaris_moving... Personally, I'd say this is similar to Microsoft's decisions around Windows 10.

And that is what they call spin. Didn't they fire the people who write it?

No, they did not. How do I know? Because I'm still working on Solaris almost nine years later along with many others. Same manager, same projects.

Staffing levels in some areas was changed as was publicly announced.

See also http://www.esteem.co.uk/news-events/oracle-solaris-whats-goi...

Disclaimer: these are my opinions and not those of my employer.

Re: Oracle refuses to accept pro-Google “fair use” verdict in API battle

#222

Post by dragandj »

wtallis wrote: post #215
dragandj wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But OpenJDK is GPL. If Google licensed their Android Java as GPL, I guess they'd be OK. However, Google's Java is NOT GPL.

If the "structure, sequence, and organization" of APIs is a copyrightable work in its own right, then couldn't Google make a GPL-licensed derivative SSO (Android's API) but put their implementation under a separate license? Has anyone done a legal analysis of how the GPL's copyleft provisions would apply to this new kind of copyrighted work?

No. Everything that gets linked to GPL has to be GPL.

Re: Oracle refuses to accept pro-Google “fair use” verdict in API battle

#223

Post by yellowapple »

mschuster91 wrote: post #155
blub wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe he is an asshole, but at least Larry Ellison didn't build a company to spy on half the planet like Page & Brin.

> Maybe he is an asshole, but at least Larry Ellison didn't build a company to spy on half the planet like Page & Brin. The toolbars and other crap which the JRE installer / autoupdater tries to sneak on to unwitting users' systems ARE spyware.

On one hand, it was Sun that introduced that idea.

On the other hand, Oracle seems to have embraced it.

Re: Oracle refuses to accept pro-Google “fair use” verdict in API battle

#225

Post by teen »

snarf21 wrote: post #169
technofiend wrote: post #20

Although Oracle denied they bought Sun just to sue Google you have to wonder since they are claiming "billions" in damages and only paid $7.4 billion after IBM dropped their $7.0 billion bid. This purchase was such a seminal moment for the industry you have to wonder what an alternative history would look like if say IBM or Google made the purchase not to mention some dark horses like Amazon or Red hat.

They absolutely bought Sun just to sue. I used to know someone personally involved on the case. Oracle is a horrible company. To be fair, Google's "don't be evil" is also a bunch of crap. They've done their fair share of shady and exploitive things.

like what?

Re: Oracle refuses to accept pro-Google “fair use” verdict in API battle

#226

Post by jimnotgym »

binarycrusader wrote: post #221
jimnotgym wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And that is what they call spin. Didn't they fire the people who write it?

No, they did not. How do I know? Because I'm still working on Solaris almost nine years later along with many others. Same manager, same projects. Staffing levels in some areas was changed as was publicly announced. See also http://www.esteem.co.uk/news-events/oracle-solaris-whats-goi... Disclaimer: these are my opinions and not those of my employer.

Sorry, it was reported that the job losses at Oracle were from the Solaris team. I read the memo from Oracle on Solaris 12 and was (and am) completely unconvinced by it, but maybe I am just cynical. I am still moving away from it as fast as I can convince the board to back me. Good luck on the Solaris team, some good things could come out of it (with some open source licensing). Oracle could do themselves some serious reputational favours by staying out of court.

Re: Oracle refuses to accept pro-Google “fair use” verdict in API battle

#227

Post by sb8244 »

tlogan wrote: post #192
diebir wrote: post #100

Oracle is set to repeat the trajectory of SCO. Their primary product (the Oracle DB engine) is being displaced by the NoSQL and things like Postgres. The "next generation" of developers equals SQL engines with "old and bad", and when forced, it ends up with Postgres anyway. Oracle used to survive in significant part by the support of the "database administrators" class. This layer of support is also becoming thinner…

The problem is the following: problems that Oracle products are solving are very hard. On other hand, our SV startup culture is all about making some quick websites and get rich schemes. So the conclusion is: Oracle is here to stay.

What hard problems are they solving that can't be solved with OSS today (tech problems)?

I've heard things about their business apps division (business problems) and I can't say I particularly believe in their future there versus smaller focused companies.

Re: Oracle refuses to accept pro-Google “fair use” verdict in API battle

#228

Post by ehsankia »

diebir wrote: post #100

Oracle is set to repeat the trajectory of SCO. Their primary product (the Oracle DB engine) is being displaced by the NoSQL and things like Postgres. The "next generation" of developers equals SQL engines with "old and bad", and when forced, it ends up with Postgres anyway. Oracle used to survive in significant part by the support of the "database administrators" class. This layer of support is also becoming thinner…

Basically, instead of innovating, or as the hip kids nowadays say, "pivoting", they just want to make easy money with stupid copyright claims and harmful tactics.

I find this strategy extremely toxic and malicious. Google may do a lot of stupid things, and people often make fun of their "don't be evil" motto, but let's be honest, the shit Oracle keeps pulling here over and over is the real definition of evil.

It's purely for profit and doesn't help in anyway to advance technology or humankind.

Re: Oracle refuses to accept pro-Google “fair use” verdict in API battle

#229

Post by UseStrict »

gaius wrote: post #124
diebir wrote: post #100

Oracle is set to repeat the trajectory of SCO. Their primary product (the Oracle DB engine) is being displaced by the NoSQL and things like Postgres. The "next generation" of developers equals SQL engines with "old and bad", and when forced, it ends up with Postgres anyway. Oracle used to survive in significant part by the support of the "database administrators" class. This layer of support is also becoming thinner…

This layer of support is also becoming thinner and older. It's not about age(ism) it's that Oracle stabbed them in the back by pushing cloud over on-prem where these guys (and gals) were employed. Now Oracle's biggest supporters are re-skilling to Postgres et al and stopped recommending Oracle to their organisations...

Agreed, we were stuck using Oracle at my job and it's an pain to maintain. Their cloud solutions are awful and on-premises suffered greatly. Their database engine might be solid, but everything around it was terrible. Things like PL/SQL being an unruly mess, even things like auto-incrementing columns were missing until the most recent release (12c R1). Coupled with insane licensing (arbitrarily changing the core factor for licensing) and auditing (soft limits, lots of hand-waving). It serves them right that they'd be losing out to Postgres.

Re: Oracle refuses to accept pro-Google “fair use” verdict in API battle

#230

Post by jakewins »

pjmlp wrote: post #162
diebir wrote: post #100

Oracle is set to repeat the trajectory of SCO. Their primary product (the Oracle DB engine) is being displaced by the NoSQL and things like Postgres. The "next generation" of developers equals SQL engines with "old and bad", and when forced, it ends up with Postgres anyway. Oracle used to survive in significant part by the support of the "database administrators" class. This layer of support is also becoming thinner…

Maybe for startups, on the enterprise space I am yet to see any customer move away from Oracle, SQL Server, DB2 and similar.

Speaking as someone with good insight in enterprise NoSQL sales - vast majority of revenue is coming from Fortune 500s shifting off oracle systems.

Oracle customers have been very easy targets - solve the technical problem, and then give them sales people that care about their success and support people driven to solve any hurdles. I've been on the phone with ex-oracle DBAs crying from happiness, trying to explain how working with a support team that's genuinely there to help them get their job done has changed their professional lives. Those people become lifetime advocates and friends, making up a foundation that will keep the current NoSQL winners healthy businesses for a generation.

Post reply on HN