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De-Googleify Internet

degooglisons-internet.org

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Re: De-Googleify Internet

#221

Post by AstralStorm »

ggggtez wrote: post #209
eriknstr wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if you did that I think there are a lot of ways to identify you, using everything from your browsing patterns -- what sites, when and for how long -- to even just the account creation process itself; you'll still need to complete the captcha and with the "click all images that match" captchas that Google is currently using on reCAPTCHA (which btw was quite a bait-and-switch; they originally got a lot of people t…

I think it you want to make browsing data completely anonymous you're going to have to download a snapshot of the internet and unplug your connection. Unfortunately, that's really not the user experience most people want.

Or prevent a chunk of the Internet pages from abusing JavaScript, then use proxies such as Tor.

Re: De-Googleify Internet

#222

Post by Twisell »

sdenton4 wrote: post #171
gohrt wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The forced-login isn't to improve product quality, it's to make more money on ads. StackOverflow/Exchange works great without forced login to view content.

whynotboth.gif Stack overflow works better when people provide answers and feedback on prior answers; persistent login greatly increases the chance that someone will leave a reply, which in turn helps future users.

Nope this is directly linked to ad revenues because StackOverflow don't care about them they can offer freedom. And if they ever get into financial difficulty you can count on me to subscribe to a paying "gold membership" and I still won't care if broken students get the same content for free and without login.

You never wondered why there is very few fake account on stackoverflow as compared to ad based social network?

Re: De-Googleify Internet

#223

Post by Twisell »

emsy wrote: post #138
codedokode wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does it even work? I interpret such behaviour as "you are not welcome here" and close the page.

For me too. Whenever I do need something from Quora I disable their register coercion with a ?share=fuckyou query param. However, most non tech-users I know will simply enter their email and a password because it's so simple and they don't see the problem with this dark pattern.

Thank for the tip! I was stuck on that stupid register screen last week and just resigned and look elsewhere.

Maybe if I can actually have a grasp of what quora can do for me BEFORE subscribing I might someday consider joining.

PS: This is exactly the same crap for web based startup, usually the more they hide they're "sass live demo" under a trial subscribe-wall, the more I'm supspicious. Often with reason as product are shitty. When on the opposite you have a big "try me link" (and possibly even a "see the source on GitHub") I already have a good impression on the product...

Re: De-Googleify Internet

#224

Post by cromwellian »

earthly10x wrote: post #2

Once again showing that Google is many orders of magnitude above companies like twitter, aol and facebook in terms of reach, revenue, influence, data and more importantly, algorithmic AI. Just take a look at the top 10 sites and apps on the net, most are controlled by Google, not twitter, aol or the next aol, facebook.

Except that people spend more time on Facebook than anything.

Re: De-Googleify Internet

#225

Post by zem »

syphilis2 wrote: post #49
Ajedi32 wrote: post #27

> These services track us everywhere, while claiming to give us a better “user experience”. That's kind of the problem though; they usually _do_ offer a better user experience. If we want users to start using open source software rather than walled garden solutions from large companies, we're going to have to start building open source solutions which offer a comparable user experience to proprietary ones from large…

I believe this is true. But I also have found that sometimes the user experience is diminished when not "logged in" to encourage people to create accounts. Pinterest has a box that slowly covers up more of the screen as you scroll drown. Facebook has a login prompt box that stays at the bottom of the screen and occasionally expands as a reminder. Quora prevents internal redirects to new pages. With enough know-how th…

i stopped using pinterest the minute i discovered they were doing this, despite already having created an account. likewise, i tend to avoid quora links. facebook i don't mind so much because it feels more like social networking than part of (what should be) the open internet.

Re: De-Googleify Internet

#226

Post by bigbugbag »

Ajedi32 wrote: post #27

> These services track us everywhere, while claiming to give us a better “user experience”. That's kind of the problem though; they usually _do_ offer a better user experience. If we want users to start using open source software rather than walled garden solutions from large companies, we're going to have to start building open source solutions which offer a comparable user experience to proprietary ones from large…

That's because you omit to factor in the tracking and everything that comes with it. When you add advertising, profiling, censorship, surveillance and worse suddenly the experience is not so desirable anymore. We get tricked into it because the consequences of tracking are not immediately obvious and often delayed, (and a handful of cognitive biases) but it is still part of the user experience.

For the users where this downside is obvious because they've been jailed, silenced, murdered the user experience is arguably not better.

It's not only about tracking, Wanna talk about the user experience of google reader to cite one famous example of google's better user experience ?

Re: De-Googleify Internet

#227

Post by bigbugbag »

KirinDave wrote: post #98
syphilis2 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe this is true. But I also have found that sometimes the user experience is diminished when not "logged in" to encourage people to create accounts. Pinterest has a box that slowly covers up more of the screen as you scroll drown. Facebook has a login prompt box that stays at the bottom of the screen and occasionally expands as a reminder. Quora prevents internal redirects to new pages. With enough know-how th…

Right, but the simple truth is: people do it. They don't mind doing it. Especially when the alternative is terrible user experience. The vast majority of tools named when these conversations come up are demonstrably worse from a UX perspective. Free software does not get a pass on UX because it is free. There are many reasons why that is, but we have to recognize it is true.

Overgeneralizing a bit here. I agree than many people do, but some don't. I mind and I never create an account on websites trying those dirty tricks on me and I know a bunch of people who do the same.

Re: De-Googleify Internet

#228

Post by pierre_d528 »

anigbrowl wrote: post #204
pierre_d528 wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here is something wonderfully tangible: Alan Kay and a couple of friends built an entire system in 2.8MB in 1998[1]. You can actually DO stuff with these techs: "How Smalltalk Enables World Record Breaking Performance"[2] Guys behind V8 are smalltalkers. Nothing "theoretical" here, just science. I do not care about pompous theory. For example, I do not believe in real numbers. I let "theory" to poets and most academi…

Many people here are politely explaining to you that these tools have great intentions but that they are poorly designed, and you respond with irrelevant assertions about performance records. It is as if people tell you that a velo is unsuitable for construction work, and you respond with praise of Romain Bardet. This discussion is about 'Free, Decentralized, Ethical Internet built on Solidarity.' Who cares about rec…

"Many people here are politely explaining to you that these tools have great intentions but that they are poorly designed,"

So, the "design" of the iPad is superior to the "design" of the Dynabook?

Despite paperless vision of the future thx to "software", usage of printers has just begun to stop growing.

Patronizing and blind or high priests of the "rentware" cult.

Re: De-Googleify Internet

#229

Post by wallacoloo »

Freak_NL wrote: post #136
anthony_romeo wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, most of the time I don't need to go to Google. But with '!g' the search defaults to encrypted mode (which you can do anyway at encrypted.google.com). Honestly, I mostly use ddg because the bang syntax is extremely helpful. Like if I want to search hacker news posts, I just add !hn or !hackernews to the search. They also have bang searches for documentation of many languages, like !java

You can also make DuckDuckGo the default search engine in Firefox' location bar. That way anything that is not a URL is treated as a search query. I particularly like !wen for Wikipedia and !wikt for Wiktionary.

> That way anything that is not a URL is treated as a search query.

And if your search query does look like a URL, you can just add the !ddg bang to it & you'll be sent to DuckDuckGo instead of having your browser try to navigate to the URL! (At least, that's the only semi-legitimate use for !ddg that I can find - when else could it be used?)

Btw, you can also just use !w for Wikipedia.

Re: De-Googleify Internet

#230

Post by pas »

bigbugbag wrote: post #226
Ajedi32 wrote: post #27

> These services track us everywhere, while claiming to give us a better “user experience”. That's kind of the problem though; they usually _do_ offer a better user experience. If we want users to start using open source software rather than walled garden solutions from large companies, we're going to have to start building open source solutions which offer a comparable user experience to proprietary ones from large…

That's because you omit to factor in the tracking and everything that comes with it. When you add advertising, profiling, censorship, surveillance and worse suddenly the experience is not so desirable anymore. We get tricked into it because the consequences of tracking are not immediately obvious and often delayed, (and a handful of cognitive biases) but it is still part of the user experience. For the users where th…

> For the users where this downside is obvious because they've been jailed, silenced, murdered the user experience is arguably not better.

So we need a site that takes this into perspective and educates users.

The "true" value of tracking = [user benefits][number of users] - [mad regime oppressing people][oppressed people]

How bad is the oppressing? How great are the benefits? What's the correct mental model for evaluating this? What would happen without tracking? What's the value of the alternatives?

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