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Tesla shares dive after Consumer Reports yanks recommendation for Model S

latimes.com

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Re: Tesla shares dive after Consumer Reports yanks recommendation for Model S

#221

Post by flashman »

threeseed wrote: post #160
crabasa wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sorry if I gave you the impression that Telsa is competing with utilities to store energy at scale . I meant storing energy for personal use (vehicles/homes/etc). They will certainly source all of their energy from said utility companies.

We've had energy storage devices for homes for a while now. It isn't exactly tearing up the market. Very few people are willing to pay the significant upfront cost for the benefit of ongoing but small reductions in power bills. And that is with government subsidies (at least in Australia). I don't see how Tesla's superior technology is going to affect the product proposition.

> Very few people are willing to pay the significant upfront cost for the benefit of ongoing but small reductions in power bills.

There are nine million households in Australia.[1] 1.4 million (one in six) have rooftop PV solar installed - "the highest proportion of any country."[2] Tesla is debuting its household battery storage in Australia because of the opportunity it presents. I expect within ten years, more than half of solar powered houses will have some form of storage installed.

[1] http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-05-06/fact-file-housing-in-a... [2] http://www.theage.com.au/comment/here-comes-the-solar-power-...

Re: Tesla shares dive after Consumer Reports yanks recommendation for Model S

#222

Post by josephagoss »

semi-extrinsic wrote: post #124
VLM wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed and don't forget licensing. OK so TSLA makes squeeky sunroofs, who cares, they can sell batteries and controllers and motors to ... construction crane companies or something. You know all the weird details of making a tow truck, cool, here's the parts to make it electric. Happens all the time in the automotive industry. The first "american" hatchback car I ever drove had a nice VW engine. Ironically it was som…

Well, Tesla buys their batteries from Panasonic. And the motor is a standard induction motor, not very different from what the actual (Nikolai) Tesla invented back in 1887. I agree that their control system is going to be fairly complicated, since induction motors require the AC frequency to be a function of the torque as well as the RPM. But then most applications outside "quick 0-60 pure electric car" use brushless…

I had no idea Tesla but the batteries from Panasonic, I thought the entire point of Tesla is that they build them in house? And what about the Gigafactory?

If it's all truly Panasonic's tech, I am surprised so many people put their money into Tesla.

Re: Tesla shares dive after Consumer Reports yanks recommendation for Model S

#223

Post by dagw »

josephagoss wrote: post #222
semi-extrinsic wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, Tesla buys their batteries from Panasonic. And the motor is a standard induction motor, not very different from what the actual (Nikolai) Tesla invented back in 1887. I agree that their control system is going to be fairly complicated, since induction motors require the AC frequency to be a function of the torque as well as the RPM. But then most applications outside "quick 0-60 pure electric car" use brushless…

I had no idea Tesla but the batteries from Panasonic, I thought the entire point of Tesla is that they build them in house? And what about the Gigafactory? If it's all truly Panasonic's tech, I am surprised so many people put their money into Tesla.

Panasonic is a major investor and partner in the Gigafactory. They're also providing the initial cell manufacturing technology and over a hundred Panasonic employees will be on site helping with the setup.

Re: Tesla shares dive after Consumer Reports yanks recommendation for Model S

#224

Post by hvidgaard »

toddmorey wrote: post #100
pkorzeniewski wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't take the owner satisfaction ratings too seriously, people who buy Tesla cars are mostly rich enthusiasts of new technologies and will quietly deal with a lot of issues before starting to criticize the car. If someone doesn't care about the electric engine, there's really no reason to buy a Tesla - for the same price you can get a much more luxurious german car with proven technology. It's similar to people…

I hear you, but it's important to note that it appears that Mercedes (a storied German luxury car with proven technology) currently has an even a lower reliability rating. That makes me think it's likely more than just company age and experience, I think there is something about a company's risk tolerance and how it relates to their eagerness to implement new tech. As the article states, the blander "appliance-like"…

> A reliability issue sucks, but much less so if it can be resolved pleasantly and quickly.

I think a lot of people understand that a car is a very complex piece of technology, with more failure points than they can enumerate. They don't mind minor issues, as long as it's fixed timely and without much energy spend from the owner.

minor issues are issues that does not render the car unusable.

Anecdotal evidence, on my work we have a variety of laptops. A Lenovo was having issues with the trackpad. I created a ticket, and the next day a technician was onsite and fixed it. We also had an Asus that was having issues with the screen, so we created a ticket and we had to ship it away for 5 weeks before it was back. We're only buying laptops with onsite support now, even when they cost a premium, because the alternative is buying a new laptop if one of them has any issues that needs to be fixed.

Re: Tesla shares dive after Consumer Reports yanks recommendation for Model S

#225

Post by hvidgaard »

beeboop wrote: post #69
tdees40 wrote: post #48

I had a conversation with a (recently-departed) Tesla mechanic the other day (who has had experience working with every other type of car), and he said, "I knew every Tesla owner in the tri-state area on a first-name basis. Everything breaks." He did say that it's getting better with the newer models.

Everything breaks on other cars, too. I am not really sure what you're getting at with this comment. A mechanic sees nothing but broken cars.

Plenty of people have brought cars before Model S was on sale, and never had a problem. That is reliability. In Denmark we have our fair share of Model S. I live is a smaller city and I see at least 5 every day. I haven't heard about a single Model S without issues, which is the same as a mechanic that states he is on first name with every single Tesla owner in the area.

They are behind most other manufactures in production knowledge, and they're using new technology. Of course it'll be near impossible for them to avoid issues altogether.

Re: Tesla shares dive after Consumer Reports yanks recommendation for Model S

#226

Post by hvidgaard »

joosters wrote: post #75
awqrre wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know about all the other technology but the electric motor(s) should be much more reliable then the conventional combustion drivetrain

Eventually, yes. But internal combustion engines have a head start spanning decades of fixes and reliability improvements.

That does not account for the rest of the car. The drivetrain is only a part of the car. Other manufactures are miles ahead of Tesla with everything else. Now if only Mazda, Mercedes, or other high reliability manufactures would create an equivalent car, they would blow Tesla out of the water, no question.

Re: Tesla shares dive after Consumer Reports yanks recommendation for Model S

#227

Post by hvidgaard »

rev_bird wrote: post #193
dcgoss wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

http://www.teslamotors.com/supercharger has all the information you need. Realistically, an hour is the higher end of the waiting time - you can get significant range in fractions of that time. Additionally, the navigation software on the Tesla will automatically route your road trip through Superchargers, so you don't have to calculate where you need to stop.

I knew there was a pretty extensive network of superchargers, but I really underestimated the nav. Really appreciate the reply.

It's a great help, but your original point still stands. With a ICE you can simply point on a map and start driving. With a Tesla, you have to make sure there is super chargers on the way, even if the Nav helps you, you still aren't free to do as you want.

Re: Tesla shares dive after Consumer Reports yanks recommendation for Model S

#228

Post by zobzu »

marincounty wrote: post #175
nickbauman wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Shocking as it is (since I write software for a living) I buy only used cars with as few options as possible. All manual transmission, locks, windows and doors. I don't even have A/C in one of my two cars. Owning a car in America is like a tax: you need a car to have a meaningful participation in the economy. So while I admire Tesla's technology, through this lens I can't imagine buying one in this lifetime.

My father was the same way. My father's third new vechicle was a 90's Ford truck, and he didn't want "Anything exotic--in terms of accessories." Salesperson, "But of course you want the power windows?". Father, "No, I can roll up my own windows." Father, "Give me the truck, and throw in a factory service manual. Bye." On the way home, I said, I remember your first car, that 50's something corvette, you bought had all…

Aint that a comnovel! Your father sounded like a nice guy. The advice is still sound.

Re: Tesla shares dive after Consumer Reports yanks recommendation for Model S

#229

Post by ulfw »

anxman wrote: post #119
vesrah wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right there with you. <3000mi on the car and the drive unit needed to be replaced, the front left strut area makes a popping when turning the wheel, and I can hear something flapping while driving.

My 2013 P85 was in for service 4 times before the alignment was fixed correctly. Sticky sunroof. Rattles. 12v battery failure causing full system failure. Motor replacement. Charge port battery broke. 2014 P85D: Total vehicle failure at 218 miles on the odometer. Front motor replaced. Rear motor milling failure. Rear motor replacement again as part incompatible with Autopilot. That all being said, the service is pain…

I wonder how much post-purchase rationalization is going on there. With a $100,000+ car having to be serviced that many times - it sounds like a major inconvenience for people who work hard to make a living (so as to afford a $100K+ car). Coming back and buying a new one one year after that then also breaks about a week after purchase and saying "Oh I still love it" shows that SJ's Reality distortion field is alive and kicking.

Re: Tesla shares dive after Consumer Reports yanks recommendation for Model S

#230

Post by NickNameNick »

dragontamer wrote: post #113
jkestner wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't forget batteries. Rolls-Royce did well with jet engines, probably better than cars.

Except it is Panasonic who makes Tesla's cells. The "batteries" can't really be used for much else because they're so customized to the car. http://pop.h-cdn.co/assets/15/07/980x490/landscape_142375080... Tesla Home isn't doing too hot, as far as I can tell. Even SolarCity isn't recommending it to anybody... and SolarCity is Elon's baby as well!

Aren't the cells just 18650s?
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