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UK Petition: Do not introduce Digital ID cards

petition.parliament.uk

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Re: UK Petition: Do not introduce Digital ID cards

#211

Post by goalieca »

skeletal88 wrote: post #80
dijit wrote: post #3

As well as the Estonia eID system works (aside from that time it got hacked[0] and that other time they leaked all the photos[1]) and how well a digital (non-government) system works in Scandinavia… I have to say… As a Dual British/Swedish Citizen, I really do not trust the UK government. They have proven over and over and over, that at every opportunity presented they will increase their own authority. I don’t belie…

Our system in Estonia works well. I don't get the resistance to a digital/national id in other countries. To us it is quite bizarre. Some have explained it with a lack of trust between citizens and the country. But without such digital id it is impossible to have such digital government services as we have here. The government services need to verify and autheticate the citizen, so they only access their own data and…

> I don't get the resistance to a digital/national id in other countries. To us it is quite bizarre.

Imagine if you were a large country, say 10x to 100x larger. Your government would be equally more resourced and probably have more hands controlling more parts of your business and lives. This is where digital id becomes a scarier prospect. This is where opportunity and ability finally collude.

Re: UK Petition: Do not introduce Digital ID cards

#212

Post by jen729w »

throwaway808081 wrote: post #206
jen729w wrote: post #129

I don't trust the UK government either. But I'm both British and Australian and I see the need for a centralised identity service. Because the alternative is that we provide our passport to every online service that 'needs' to verify our identity. Then – lo, would you believe it! – they get hacked, and now all of our data is in the wild again . I'd much rather the government, who already know everything about me beca…

Why do services need to verify identity? What service needs a solution to verify identity that doesn't already exist? Banks do KYC now. Employers already need a National Insurance number to employ someone. Benefits get paid to a named payee. Emergency healthcare needs no insurance and waiting lists come via a GP who indeed knows me. What service needs a further centralised deposit of power over identity?

In Australia (and many other countries), we need to KYC when we get a new mobile plan. This makes sense: you can do a lot of criming with a 'dark' phone number.

Predictably enough, then...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Optus_data_breach

> In September 2022, Australian telecommunications company Optus suffered a data breach that affected up to 10 million current and former customers comprising a third of Australia's population. Information was illegally obtained, including names, dates of birth, home addresses, telephone numbers, email contacts, and numbers of passports and driving licences.

Re: UK Petition: Do not introduce Digital ID cards

#213

Post by gslepak »

enlightens wrote: post #181
gslepak wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't get the resistance to a digital/national id in other countries. To us it is quite bizarre. It depends on the country and its relationship with the people. If the people trust that their government represents the people's interests, there is little push-back. In countries where citizens have reason to believe their government is hijacked by interests that do not have their best interests at heart, then every…

that Twitter account famously posts nonsense https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/events/jordan-petersons-chine...

Think you'd be hard pressed to find a single Twitter account that hasn't at some point posted some nonsense.

Re: UK Petition: Do not introduce Digital ID cards

#214

Post by tailspin2019 »

I’m a bit surprised that this of all things has received over 2m signatures already and yet we (the UK) have been passing far more dangerous legislation recently where the general public didn’t seem to care.

I wonder if it’s because “ID cards” is an issue that has been around for some time and is perhaps more easily understood than other erosions of privacy and freedoms that are a more subtle.

Re: UK Petition: Do not introduce Digital ID cards

#215

Post by RobotToaster »

basisword wrote: post #175
dijit wrote: post #3

As well as the Estonia eID system works (aside from that time it got hacked[0] and that other time they leaked all the photos[1]) and how well a digital (non-government) system works in Scandinavia… I have to say… As a Dual British/Swedish Citizen, I really do not trust the UK government. They have proven over and over and over, that at every opportunity presented they will increase their own authority. I don’t belie…

>> I don’t believe I have personally witnessed any other advanced economy that so ardently marches towards authoritarianism. Come on. You really think the UK has moved further towards authoritarianism in recent years than the US?

It's a close competition, but the US seems to have a trump card.

Re: UK Petition: Do not introduce Digital ID cards

#216

Post by ffsm8 »

gslepak wrote: post #213
enlightens wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

that Twitter account famously posts nonsense https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/events/jordan-petersons-chine...

Think you'd be hard pressed to find a single Twitter account that hasn't at some point posted some nonsense.

So all Twitter users are terminally online?

Re: UK Petition: Do not introduce Digital ID cards

#217

Post by pepa65 »

mulmen wrote: post #113
skeletal88 wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Our system in Estonia works well. I don't get the resistance to a digital/national id in other countries. To us it is quite bizarre. Some have explained it with a lack of trust between citizens and the country. But without such digital id it is impossible to have such digital government services as we have here. The government services need to verify and autheticate the citizen, so they only access their own data and…

> I don't get the resistance to a digital/national id in other countries. To us it is quite bizarre. I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt that this is a language barrier issue but this comes across as astonishingly narrow minded.

It's obviously a cultural difference issue that might create the impression of narrowmindedness.

Re: UK Petition: Do not introduce Digital ID cards

#218

Post by SXX »

skeletal88 wrote: post #80
dijit wrote: post #3

As well as the Estonia eID system works (aside from that time it got hacked[0] and that other time they leaked all the photos[1]) and how well a digital (non-government) system works in Scandinavia… I have to say… As a Dual British/Swedish Citizen, I really do not trust the UK government. They have proven over and over and over, that at every opportunity presented they will increase their own authority. I don’t belie…

Our system in Estonia works well. I don't get the resistance to a digital/national id in other countries. To us it is quite bizarre. Some have explained it with a lack of trust between citizens and the country. But without such digital id it is impossible to have such digital government services as we have here. The government services need to verify and autheticate the citizen, so they only access their own data and…

Russia also have very good digital services. Now in one go government can send you conscription notification and immediately block your from leaving country as well as revoke driver license, block your banks and even phone numbers.

Also since all the data available about you in one place any malicious actor who can bribe someone with access can immediately get all your data: passport info and tax id, addresses, work history, all cars and all owned properties, everything.

Having centralized system with information about everything can very easily be used for oppression.

Re: UK Petition: Do not introduce Digital ID cards

#219

Post by agnishom »

crazygringo wrote: post #194
wkat4242 wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Because the alternative is that we provide our passport to every online service that 'needs' to verify our identity. I really really really don't want to 'verify my identity' everywhere. Why the F is that normalised these days?? If I buy something online my payment and delivery address is all they should need. And all they've had to have for the last 30 years > I'd much rather the government, who already know every…

> If I buy something online my payment and delivery address is all they should need. That's what verifying your identity is for . The payment. This cuts down on fraud. My credit cards often require me to enter a code they text me for a purchase to go through, when it's somewhere online I've never shopped before. That's confirming my identity. And my credit card needed my identity originally to look up my credit histo…

The "credit card" model for buying stuff seems to be flawed. When you give some company your credit card number and CVV to buy something, they could always turn around and give the number to someone else.

The fix is very simple, but requires more interaction: (1) You ask merchant for stuff (2) Merchant sends you a "money claim" (3) you sign your money claim (4) the merchant takes the signed claim to the bank (5) the bank verifies the signature using your public key (6) bank transfers the money to merchant from your account

Re: UK Petition: Do not introduce Digital ID cards

#220

Post by SXX »

tombot wrote: post #110
gslepak wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't get the resistance to a digital/national id in other countries. To us it is quite bizarre. It depends on the country and its relationship with the people. If the people trust that their government represents the people's interests, there is little push-back. In countries where citizens have reason to believe their government is hijacked by interests that do not have their best interests at heart, then every…

UK already has a social credit system with our credit score, we even need to pay to see it.

UK credit score system don't even have "nationality" in it so not discriminating non-citizens that much. Neither it hold any ID card or passport numbers.

Yeah there is electoral roll, but you can still access credit without being on it and afaik all residents of scotland are on it since even non citizens can vote in local election.

And unlike US there not even a "score" number since lenders only get records but not some magical number. Whatever credit agencies sell you as credit score is just random number they come up with and it's not being used by lenders btw.

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