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UK Petition: Do not introduce Digital ID cards

petition.parliament.uk

131–140 of 373 posts

Re: UK Petition: Do not introduce Digital ID cards

#131
post #68

After seeing NUMEROUS video of UK police showing up at doorsteps like the gestapo, arresting or citing or intimidating people who are simply practicing free speech, I don’t think anyone should support the government with a pathway to de-anonymize the web. Even if you support the current government, such powers will be used against you at some point.

Tweets - prison Assaulting and trying to stab a man burning a Quran - Suspended sentence https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c8xr12yx5l4o watch the video and tell me this man should be A) not in prison and B) in the country after said prison sentence

Any young man would probably get an attempted murder charge for that. Very incendiary ruling; sort of thing that could start a riot.

Re: UK Petition: Do not introduce Digital ID cards

#132

I don't trust the UK government either. But I'm both British and Australian and I see the need for a centralised identity service. Because the alternative is that we provide our passport to every online service that 'needs' to verify our identity. Then – lo, would you believe it! – they get hacked, and now all of our data is in the wild again . I'd much rather the government, who already know everything about me beca…

Your mistake is assuming good faith on behalf of the government who arrests thousands of people for social media posts. Beyond faith, they are incredibly incompetent and this data will be stolen.

Re: UK Petition: Do not introduce Digital ID cards

#133
post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In many cases the “free speech” genuinely is racial hatred bordering on incitement. But on the other hand there genuinely have been many people arrested (and in some cases convicted) under these laws for statements that are shockingly milquetoast.

> But on the other hand there genuinely have been many people arrested (and in some cases convicted) under these laws for statements that are shockingly milquetoast. Care to name some? The vast majority of cases I've looked into end up being a lot more than the initially presented "They Were Arrested For Saying Bad Words On The Internet!" story pushed on the internet. In fact, I can't remember a single one where ther…

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-46959556... is one example of a successful prosecution.

There are many more cases of harassment by the police or arrests, the most recent example that comes to mind being Graham Linehan. These are clearly not as bad as prosecutions, but still create a chilling effect.

Re: UK Petition: Do not introduce Digital ID cards

#134
post #41
post #21

The labour government can not be challenged in any serious way until the next election in 4 years. Petitions don't really do anything, they will just say "no" to what the people ask for and move on with their agenda. It is disheartening to see this country follow the same path the US took, it seems as our politics become more polarised, the team sports aspect means we start seeing parties push through agendas while p…

The really rough part is that while the Democratic Party in the US is a weak slightly-left-of-center party, the Labour Party in the UK is basically a right-of-center party with decreasing amounts of daylight between them and the Tories. In particular, there is no major political party in the UK that supports trans rights, which is devastating to that community there. (On the plus side, so far as I can tell, with the…

> In particular, there is no major political party in the UK that supports trans rights, which is devastating to that community there.

I believe this is incorrect. No party has said they have any intention of removing "gender reassignment" as a protected characteristic from the Equality Act. This law provides protection and offers legal recourse from being discriminated against by employers, service providers, and so on. Which, to cover those individuals with this characteristic, is the most reasonable consensus interpretation of "trans rights".

Re: UK Petition: Do not introduce Digital ID cards

#135
post #3

As well as the Estonia eID system works (aside from that time it got hacked[0] and that other time they leaked all the photos[1]) and how well a digital (non-government) system works in Scandinavia… I have to say… As a Dual British/Swedish Citizen, I really do not trust the UK government. They have proven over and over and over, that at every opportunity presented they will increase their own authority. I don’t belie…

Our system in Estonia works well. I don't get the resistance to a digital/national id in other countries. To us it is quite bizarre. Some have explained it with a lack of trust between citizens and the country. But without such digital id it is impossible to have such digital government services as we have here. The government services need to verify and autheticate the citizen, so they only access their own data and…

Governments change. Any group in society has the potential to become marginalized, and if all services are funneled through a single system it becomes very easy to selectively switch off access.

Re: UK Petition: Do not introduce Digital ID cards

#136
post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In many cases the “free speech” genuinely is racial hatred bordering on incitement. But on the other hand there genuinely have been many people arrested (and in some cases convicted) under these laws for statements that are shockingly milquetoast.

> But on the other hand there genuinely have been many people arrested (and in some cases convicted) under these laws for statements that are shockingly milquetoast. Care to name some? The vast majority of cases I've looked into end up being a lot more than the initially presented "They Were Arrested For Saying Bad Words On The Internet!" story pushed on the internet. In fact, I can't remember a single one where ther…

A number of people have been arrested, charged and convicted for things that were very obviously jokes - tasteless jokes, offensive jokes, but still just jokes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twitter_joke_trial

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Count_Dankula

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/glasgow-bin...

Re: UK Petition: Do not introduce Digital ID cards

#137
post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't get the resistance to a digital/national id in other countries. To us it is quite bizarre. It depends on the country and its relationship with the people. If the people trust that their government represents the people's interests, there is little push-back. In countries where citizens have reason to believe their government is hijacked by interests that do not have their best interests at heart, then every…

Seems like a red-herring. Does a government need a digital ID to do that? Many do that with the "free market" of publicly-tradable information + pre-existing government IDs already used for certain things. I don't know for sure how much the UK government is purchasing all that, but there's a lot of cameras and tech tracking in the country already, like those of us across the pond also are watched with. It won't rever…

Yes, governments do need a centralized common identity if they intend to build something like a social credit system. Those without adequate experience dealing with the US system, for instance, may assume that the government already has your info and thus such a system is redundant. However, this is simply not the case. US government systems are a hodgepodge of different systems built by different vendors, over different computing eras, many of which lack a primary key relationship with something like your social security number (the current “default” identifier). Many are plagued with duplicate records, data problems, and other issues that prevent easy correlation of records without human verification. Talk to some people in the IRS or Social Security and you’ll quickly get a sense of how many problems this can create! Maybe it’s improved since I last talked to people about it, but I doubt it.

A central ID enforced on all systems by statute would significantly reduce the barrier to creating “airtight” oppressive systems. While the inefficiencies in the US system have a cost, certainly preventing the implementation of more efficient social benefit programs, they also provide a barrier against more efficient social repression. Given the political animosity present in the country right now, it’s probably good that we don’t have the ability to create a turnkey totalitarian system. Things are bad enough as is!

More generally, in nations where the population feels suspicion towards their politicians and bureaucrats, the people may prefer to leave inefficiencies baked into the system in order to hamper potential oppression. Those social tensions and trust deficits should be resolved before proceeding with any ambitious central ID schemes.

Re: UK Petition: Do not introduce Digital ID cards

#138

I don't trust the UK government either. But I'm both British and Australian and I see the need for a centralised identity service. Because the alternative is that we provide our passport to every online service that 'needs' to verify our identity. Then – lo, would you believe it! – they get hacked, and now all of our data is in the wild again . I'd much rather the government, who already know everything about me beca…

> Because the alternative is that we provide our passport to every online service that 'needs' to verify our identity.

I really really really don't want to 'verify my identity' everywhere. Why the F is that normalised these days?? If I buy something online my payment and delivery address is all they should need. And all they've had to have for the last 30 years

> I'd much rather the government, who already know everything about me because may I remind you they issued the documents, had some way of that company querying my 'verified identity'.

Um yeah but right now they don't know what you do with your life all the time. Anna have absolutely no business to.

Re: UK Petition: Do not introduce Digital ID cards

#139
post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Public Order Act 1986 "insulting words or behavior that cause distress to others" Malicious Communications Act 1988 (Section 1): "Outlaws sending messages, electronic or otherwise, with the intent to cause distress, or anxiety" Communications Act 2003, Online Safety Act 2023, hate speech, terrorist legislation all made these many orders of magnitude worse in many ways.

You cannot be arrested for sending “any message online that anyone could find insulting or offensive”. That’s not what the law says. You can be arrested for spreading hate speech, inciting violence, sending illegal media or harassment online. All of the arrests mentioned in this thread in relation to these acts have been campaigns of intimidation, harassment and calls to violence, not simply saying something “insulti…

> All of the arrests mentioned in this thread in relation to these acts have been campaigns of intimidation, harassment and calls to violence, not simply saying something “insulting or offensive”

This is false. But even if it weren’t, it would be unjust. Determinations like “hate speech” are subjective, and have no place in law concerning speech. Without free speech, there is no democracy.

Re: UK Petition: Do not introduce Digital ID cards

#140

I don't trust the UK government either. But I'm both British and Australian and I see the need for a centralised identity service. Because the alternative is that we provide our passport to every online service that 'needs' to verify our identity. Then – lo, would you believe it! – they get hacked, and now all of our data is in the wild again . I'd much rather the government, who already know everything about me beca…

> Because the alternative is that we provide our passport to every online service that 'needs' to verify our identity. I really really really don't want to 'verify my identity' everywhere. Why the F is that normalised these days?? If I buy something online my payment and delivery address is all they should need. And all they've had to have for the last 30 years > I'd much rather the government, who already know every…

Given the ongoing "age verification" fiasco, I'd be quite wary of giving UK government any more digital powers. They don't seem to be any good at using what they have.
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