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UK Petition: Do not introduce Digital ID cards

petition.parliament.uk

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Re: UK Petition: Do not introduce Digital ID cards

#101

Post by arp242 »

dmazin wrote: post #24

The thing that frustrates me the most about digital ID cards is not themselves on merit but rather modern Labour's political abilities. Like, the UK economy is stagnant, there is a cost-of-living crisis, and Labour needs to present the public with an alternative to Farage. And the answer is... digital ID cards?

Starmer seems to be under the impression that Labour needs to focus on immigration to stave of Reform. This is a mistake because most people don't really care about immigration as such, they care about cost of living, health care, and basic things like that. Research and polling in many different countries over many different years have shown this again and again and again. People like Farage like to present "one easy answer to all problems politicians don't want you to know!" First: EU, now: immigration, next: gingers?

Focusing so strongly on immigration and related issues only strengthens Farage. It does nothing to convince the die-hard Reform people and alienates your own voters. We're already seeing Labour split to a new party (well, assuming it doesn't implode in classic left-wing infighting). It's lose-lose.

Labour won 2/3rd of MPs with just 1/3rd of the vote, the biggest gap between MPs and vote share in modern history by quite a margin. In many ways they "lost" last year's election because that's a very underwhelming result after running against a deeply unpopular government that's been in government for almost 15 years. They've been on a thin ice since day one.

All of this is such an obvious mistake that I truly don't understand what Starmer is even thinking.

Re: UK Petition: Do not introduce Digital ID cards

#102

Post by n4r9 »

SilverElfin wrote: post #9
n4r9 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder how much you're loading into "simply practicing free speech".

Go watch the videos and look up what was said. Most of them are clearly normal non violent free speech, but just politically not aligned to the current government’s platform. I’m not saying all are just doing free speech but am confident about most.

In my experience, when someone has an extreme opinion and says "just watch this video", it's largely a waste of time. Video is too easily game-able as a medium.

Re: UK Petition: Do not introduce Digital ID cards

#103

Post by arp242 »

AJRF wrote: post #21

The labour government can not be challenged in any serious way until the next election in 4 years. Petitions don't really do anything, they will just say "no" to what the people ask for and move on with their agenda. It is disheartening to see this country follow the same path the US took, it seems as our politics become more polarised, the team sports aspect means we start seeing parties push through agendas while p…

I mean, that's kind of how the political system works in both the UK and US, and is not exactly a new thing. Often the "real" opposition are the backbenchers of your own party, rather than the opposition party.

Re: UK Petition: Do not introduce Digital ID cards

#104

Post by lifeisstillgood »

Bender wrote: post #39
wizzwizz4 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That already happened: James VI of Scotland inherited the English (and Irish) throne. There's a pedantic sense in which the current English king is actually the Scottish king, not the other way around (although stronger pedantry would say the Hanoverian succession is sufficient to prove that whole line of reasoning a load of tosh). What would restoring the Scottish monarchy mean to you?

What would restoring the Scottish monarchy mean to you? Fully reclaim Scotland's historical sovereignty, create a clear and distinct break with the rest of the United Kingdom and breaking English narratives. My first act as king would be to build hundreds of underground nuclear and geothermal power plants, sever all connections to England, build massive data-centers and under ground cities to wait out WWIII. I would…

I see your cunning plan - post on HN this week, get hired to write Nigel Farage’s next manifesto the week after.

The swipe left or right on immigration requests is a vote winner ! Simon Cowell can host it weekly…

Re: UK Petition: Do not introduce Digital ID cards

#105

Post by mytailorisrich »

Spivak wrote: post #93
mytailorisrich wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regarding tackling illegal immigration the issue is that there are already ample and sufficients checks mandated by law so this would not change anything. Indeed the main issue is that there are dodgy employers and landlords who simply flunk the law and would oviously continue to do so and ignore Digital IDs all the same. Digital IDs would also be de facto mandatory for the majority of adult residents based on what t…

> Indeed the main issue is that there are dodgy employers and landlords who simply flunk the law I'm surprised that this is your framing, I don't think I would hesitate to offer a willing tenant or otherwise good employee a job because of their legal status. Mostly just on principle, it's not my job to be an arm of the state and I resent being deputized. They're physically here in my town, better they have somewhere…

You have rushed into commenting without carefully reading what I wrote or knowing the context.

In the UK, by law employers must check that the people they hire have a legal "right to work", i.e. are citizens or foreigners with the relevant visa. In England, landlords must check that prospective tenants have a legal "right to rent", i.e. are lawful residents. Penalties are hefty fines and up to jail.

Hence "flunking the law".

Re: UK Petition: Do not introduce Digital ID cards

#106

Post by cortic »

teamonkey wrote: post #54
cortic wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is a criminal offense in the UK to use insulting words in public, or to send any message online that anyone could find insulting or offensive (whether any one does or not is irreverent). The Online Safety Act and Hate Crime Provision have extended these somewhat into the realms of 1984. But the police do tend to use them sparingly.

> It is a criminal offense in the UK to use insulting words in public, or to send any message online that anyone could find insulting or offensive (whether any one does or not is irreverent). This is categorically untrue.

Public Order Act 1986

"insulting words or behavior that cause distress to others"

Malicious Communications Act 1988 (Section 1):

"Outlaws sending messages, electronic or otherwise, with the intent to cause distress, or anxiety"

Communications Act 2003, Online Safety Act 2023, hate speech, terrorist legislation all made these many orders of magnitude worse in many ways.

Re: UK Petition: Do not introduce Digital ID cards

#107

Post by majormajor »

gslepak wrote: post #98
skeletal88 wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Our system in Estonia works well. I don't get the resistance to a digital/national id in other countries. To us it is quite bizarre. Some have explained it with a lack of trust between citizens and the country. But without such digital id it is impossible to have such digital government services as we have here. The government services need to verify and autheticate the citizen, so they only access their own data and…

> I don't get the resistance to a digital/national id in other countries. To us it is quite bizarre. It depends on the country and its relationship with the people. If the people trust that their government represents the people's interests, there is little push-back. In countries where citizens have reason to believe their government is hijacked by interests that do not have their best interests at heart, then every…

Seems like a red-herring. Does a government need a digital ID to do that? Many do that with the "free market" of publicly-tradable information + pre-existing government IDs already used for certain things. I don't know for sure how much the UK government is purchasing all that, but there's a lot of cameras and tech tracking in the country already, like those of us across the pond also are watched with.

It won't reverse surveillance states but fraud is also a huge problem that deserves addressing.

Re: UK Petition: Do not introduce Digital ID cards

#109

Post by KoolKat23 »

skeletal88 wrote: post #80
dijit wrote: post #3

As well as the Estonia eID system works (aside from that time it got hacked[0] and that other time they leaked all the photos[1]) and how well a digital (non-government) system works in Scandinavia… I have to say… As a Dual British/Swedish Citizen, I really do not trust the UK government. They have proven over and over and over, that at every opportunity presented they will increase their own authority. I don’t belie…

Our system in Estonia works well. I don't get the resistance to a digital/national id in other countries. To us it is quite bizarre. Some have explained it with a lack of trust between citizens and the country. But without such digital id it is impossible to have such digital government services as we have here. The government services need to verify and autheticate the citizen, so they only access their own data and…

The UK doesn't have a codified constitution and changes can generally be made with a simple majority. It's a bit more high stakes.

Re: UK Petition: Do not introduce Digital ID cards

#110

Post by tombot »

gslepak wrote: post #98
skeletal88 wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Our system in Estonia works well. I don't get the resistance to a digital/national id in other countries. To us it is quite bizarre. Some have explained it with a lack of trust between citizens and the country. But without such digital id it is impossible to have such digital government services as we have here. The government services need to verify and autheticate the citizen, so they only access their own data and…

> I don't get the resistance to a digital/national id in other countries. To us it is quite bizarre. It depends on the country and its relationship with the people. If the people trust that their government represents the people's interests, there is little push-back. In countries where citizens have reason to believe their government is hijacked by interests that do not have their best interests at heart, then every…

UK already has a social credit system with our credit score, we even need to pay to see it.
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