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Framework Laptop 12 review

arstechnica.com

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Re: Framework Laptop 12 review

#211

Post by f1shy »

mmcnl wrote: post #196
f1shy wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly that is what I think, and I do think it is just not possible. I’m searching for a new laptop, I want unix, so either linux or macos. I was looking at framework, system76, tuxedo and slimbooks, and mac air. I want an ANSI keyboard, which seems an oddity in Europe (there is English iso, which viscerally hate) If you want thunderbolt ports, and some good specs, mac air is cheaper. And I’ve heard with arm process…

In The Netherlands ANSI is the most common keyboard layout, so you might want to look there if you really want/need ANSI. Only Apple and Logitech are outliers and insist on ISO.

Doesn’t NL have a Keyboard like Germany, Span, Italy or France? So you all use Ansi? That is my place in the world!!!

Thanks. I will search in that direction.

Re: Framework Laptop 12 review

#212

Post by michaelt »

Lammy wrote: post #37

I really love the lavender — VAIO-core! I do wish I could get the other modules in lavender too, but I understand why they wouldn't want to fractally-complicate their stock keeping for those items. > the Laptop 12 can only fit a single DDR5 RAM slot, which reduces memory bandwidth and limits your RAM capacity to 48GB According to this post from a Framework team member, a single 64GB SODIMM will work too and just didn…

> I already do “light gaming” [...] Team Fortress 2

The system requirements for TF2 are 1GB RAM, a single-core 1.7GHz CPU and a graphics card with 64 MB of VRAM [1] - the game is 18 years old.

If a review told me a laptop exceeded those specs, it wouldn't tell me much :)

[1] https://www.5kgamer.com/game/team-fortress-2

Re: Framework Laptop 12 review

#213

Post by chickensong »

mmcnl wrote: post #186
nucleardog wrote: post #130

> A good laptop, but not a good value Where "value" is purely monetary, I think that pretty succinctly sums up my experience/views on the Framework product line. They make good laptops, but you can generally get more for fewer dollars. If you're shopping on price, you can probably just skip right over their entire product line. That doesn't mean that their offering doesn't have value. It has value has a vote with you…

I don't really understand the repairability appeal of the Framework. Hasn't that already been a selling point for the business line laptops of HP, Lenovo and Dell for years? They all offer premium business laptops with removable RAM, SSD and battery and very detailed maintenance guides. Part availability is good too.

My previous laptop was HP, and servicing it was fairly unpleasant. It required removing around 30 screws of multiple sizes to get access, where the Framework requires 5 screws, which are captive. By the third time I needed to service the HP, the part I needed was no longer available directly from HP, and the 3rd party price was too expensive to sink into an aging laptop.

Some of the business lines are better, but the ultrabook styles that Framework is competing with can be pretty difficult to work on because the internals are so optimized for performance in a small space. The big manufacturers also tend to change the internals enough between models/versions, that if you want to fully gut and swap the insides, or maybe just replace the keyboard, the chassis is incompatible. Framework is designed to service over a longer period of time.

There is a tradeoff, because the super-optimized layouts of the big manufacturers are often superior. But for me at least, the Framework is good enough, and when I do need to make changes, it's a better experience. I'm also voting with my wallet for the change I want to see, even though the cost is probably a slightly worse laptop.

Re: Framework Laptop 12 review

#214

Post by MetaWhirledPeas »

CoffeeOnWrite wrote: post #200
linsomniac wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>in theory, you'd be keeping the same body, while swapping out the mainboard. I love the idea of Framework, but the upgradability seems questionable to me. I base this off my experience with desktops where I've rarely over the decades upgraded more than the hard drive and RAM. When I'm looking at upgrading the motherboard it seems I just end up going all the way and getting a new case/ps/etc at the same time. Maybe t…

Because the old machine is still useful intact. I don’t see a difference between laptop and desktop here. I agree I don’t see myself ever swapping in an upgraded motherboard.

I think there are some important differences. Desktops are a continually evolving space and a hobby all on their own, due to all the different cooling options and aesthetic upgrades available. And since a lot of these involve a case swap you might as well do the whole enchilada.

The niche created by Framework, in contrast, is all about reuse. It's just a different game.

Re: Framework Laptop 12 review

#215

Post by GardenLetter27 »

nickjj wrote: post #167
adityamwagh wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess that’s just the cost you have to pay for repairability and extension.

In theory this sounds good but in practice I'm not convinced there's a lot of value in the extension aspect. My desktop is 11 years old. It's an i5 3.2ghz quad core, 16 GB of memory, SSD machine that I built from individual parts for ~$850 in 2014. It has been running 24/7 since then. It handles 4k and 1440p dual monitors without issues for all of my programming / video editing needs. The only thing it doesn't do is…

To use Cursor's new language, I think it's aimed at the "price insensitive".

Re: Framework Laptop 12 review

#216

Post by MangoToupe »

Does anyone else see the touchscreen as a straight-up downside? I don't want that, have no need for it, absolutely do not want anyone touching my screen, and it's just more shit that can break.

It looks fantastic aside from that, though.

Re: Framework Laptop 12 review

#217

Post by MangoToupe »

e12e wrote: post #162
throw0101d wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depending on the features you need, you can probably pick up an M1/M2 for a decent price nowadays that could work well enough: * https://asahilinux.org/docs/platform/feature-support/overvie...

No external display support under Linux.

Works fine for me. How else do you think the studios/minis run it?

Re: Framework Laptop 12 review

#219

Post by chickensong »

0000000000100 wrote: post #202

Our company bought about 4-5 Framework 13s, and boy were they a bad experience. All sorts of driver issues, random crashes, USB ports not working right, etc. Just about all of them had some kind of issue, which is really fun when your PM has a USB port not work randomly. Ended up going back to HP laptops, 30% cheaper for the same specs and they just work consistently. Would love to hear a hobbyist perspective, Framew…

The first run of Frameworks had a weak hinge on the monitor, which isn't an uncommon problem with other brands of laptop. With Framework, you can easily replace the hinge, but that's unlikely with most other brands, and you'll need to pay to replace the entire monitor.

Another example, I didn't need an HDMI port anymore, and wanted an extra USB-C instead. Just a few bucks to swap with Framework, but impossible with other laptops.

I did have an issue with one of my USB ports on the Framework however. It was solved by removing the module and updating the bios firmware. Can't say I've ever had that happen with another laptop. I agree they're probably not ready for business use yet, where cost is the primary measurement.

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