Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s

ukrainetoday.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

211–220 of 1001 posts

Re: US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s

#211

Post by regularization »

wyldfire wrote: post #190
rich_sasha wrote: post #3

Right now every buyer of American kit is feverishly evaluating non-US alternatives. Seriously, America, this is like Brexit but 1000x. A voluntary decision, taken with gusto, to chop off arms and legs and ears and fingers and whatnot, cut off the deadwood, be light and free, a lone vessel on the ocean of prosperity, free of the burden of the stupid foreigners who are the sole reason why everything was going wrong.

The agenda that Trump advanced during campaigns was not "cut ourselves off from the rest of the world". Do his supporters really want this? What's the rationale he advances for this stance and the tarrifs? What would a president who was beholden to Russians do once elected? I mean -- what's the point of provoking Canada, of all countries? Canada as the 51st US state would be the new most populous state and would caus…

[flagged]

Re: US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s

#212

Post by jandrewrogers »

Eupolemos wrote: post #147
eunos wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Especially F-35 where lack of American support means total brick. Hey, at least Ukraine can use their S-300 systems and Sukhois against their maker.

UK and Israel have a deal where they can replace the software or some such. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CKNPCk-fd8I

The Israelis weren’t given a choice in the matter. The challenge is that parts of the software required for some key capabilities use advanced computer science R&D that is not in the literature.

You can fly the airframe but there is a significant reduction in capability unless you can also produce equivalent algorithms and data processing technology.

Re: US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s

#213

Post by PartiallyTyped »

rich_sasha wrote: post #116
labster wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I agree with you, I think the problem goes beyond military equipment. There’s a lot of risk now in doing business with America in every field, because it’s so unpredictable. Why get cloud or SaaS from the US if they’re one executive order away from being forced to break the GDPR — or shut off service completely, like Maxar in Ukraine. Why build supply chains through America if the price of raw materials can arb…

Yes, I agree. There was a view that Trump is at least transactional - that so long as you pay (NATO defense spending target, US weapons etc) he'll have your back,.in a subscription basis. Likewise outside defense I guess. But that's going up in smoke rather quickly.

The word for what you describe is racketeering.

Re: US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s

#214

Post by sras-me »

mmcnl wrote: post #151
eitland wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meanwhile Putin became silent after he forced Sweden and Finland to reconsider and join. The threat to putin wasn't Nato om his doorstep but a partially russian speaking country becoming a successful democracy and joining EU.

Somewhat surprisingly they are OK with Ukraine joining the EU [1]. > Ukraine has a sovereign right to join the European Union, but this “sovereignty” does not apply to military alliances, Kremlin spokesperson Dmitry Peskov said. https://www.politico.eu/article/dmitrt-peskov-kremlin-ukrain...

>Somewhat surprisingly they are OK with Ukraine joining the EU [1].

So this makes sense to me. Basically I think it is US that Russia sees as a threat (because may be US seen Russia as a major threat and wants to break it up).

Re: US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s

#216

Post by Waterluvian »

I think this from French senator Claude Malhuret sums it up:

    This is a tragedy for the free world, but it’s first and foremost a tragedy for the United States. [President Donald] Trump’s message is that being his ally serves no purpose, because he will not defend you, he will impose more tariffs on you than on his enemies, and he will threaten to seize your territories, while supporting the dictators who invade you.
I’ve thought for a while now that the U.S. has spent a long time building up subjective resources in goodwill, trust, reliability, etc. (you can certainly bicker about the details here). But with Trump, they’re cashing in on all of that. They’re selling the laptops and office chairs (sometimes quite literally) as a business strategy.

I think there’s a fatal misconception among many Americans about where their prosperity comes from. They’re not special or exceptionally capable by any means. It comes from wielding tremendous economic and military power gently, preferring cooperation over conquest.

My concern is that the consequences of the current strategy are too far into the future to act as a sufficient deterrent. It’ll feel like it actually works for a time. But then eventually everyone hates you and adapts to exclude you.

Re: US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s

#217

Post by bootsmann »

throwaway_20357 wrote: post #90
meindnoch wrote: post #26

Time for us in Europe to man up.

I'm sceptical. Recent movements in Germany point into the opposite direction or rather a continuation of wishful thinking. Yes, a lot of debt-funded defence investment is coming. They also promised some investment in "infrastructure". At the same time the debt increase will delay reforms that are overdue for 20 years and longer. There were already calls that, now, with all brakes off, we can increase rather than curb…

European manufacturing is more productive than US manufacturing. The US productivity advantage comes almost entirely from the US' strong tech (as in software) sector.

Re: US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s

#218

Post by gotts »

ozim wrote: post #94
postingawayonhn wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

NATO as has existed is already over. Nobody has any faith that the US will follow through on its Article 5 obligations.

The fun part - US is the only country that called Article 5.

80+ countries to USA: "we want our money back, money spent on your war that shouldn't had happened in the first place"

Re: US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s

#220

Post by ExoticPearTree »

eunos wrote: post #87
chii wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Trump didn't even win the majority of votes of those who voted. he did win the popular vote this time, unlike last.

Still below 50% (49% something) so technically not majority but plurality.

Trump: 77,302,580 votes / 49.8% of popular vote Harris: 75,017,613 votes / 48.3% of popular vote

It doesn't matter it wasn't 50%. He actually won the popular vote this time.

Post reply on HN