Norway Joins Denmark in Swedish Tesla Strike/Blockade • Hacker News Board

Re: Norway Joins Denmark in Swedish Tesla Strike/Blockade

#211

Post by Hikikomori » Wed, Dec 06, 2023, 4:10 PM UTC

hinkley wrote: post #200

Hikikomori wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Afaik only the more expensive models are manufactured in Germany, model 3 is manufactured in China, so will come by boat to Europe. The Nordic federation of transport unions has expressed support so it will be hard for Tesla to ship things by rail and road.

So Tesla can only sell high margin vehicles while the strike is happening, and we are confused why Musk has let this escalate? In the words of Jeremy Clarkson: Oh no! Anyway…

You seem to believe only dockworkers are striking?

Re: Norway Joins Denmark in Swedish Tesla Strike/Blockade

#212

Post by derelicta » Wed, Dec 06, 2023, 4:11 PM UTC

waihtis wrote: post #173

derelicta wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are right. Those businesses should simply be managed by the workers themselves. This way we wouldn't need parallel structures and we would still get proper representation for whose who create wealth themselves.

Perhaps (and hopefully) you're being sarcastic with that marxist lingo, but thinking the entire wealth resides in employees is like thinking a set of wheels is equivalent to a car. Integral, but useless without the organized framework around it.

Why would I be sarcastic? I just think that if taxation without representation is theft, so must be wealth-creation without representation.

But thankfully workers aren't mere wheels, and they can design the said framework themselves! Pretty much like peasants got to imagine parliements so as to gain the natural right to rule over themselves, despite kings and lords trying to convince them it was a silly and dangerous idea.

Re: Norway Joins Denmark in Swedish Tesla Strike/Blockade

#213

Post by TehCorwiz » Wed, Dec 06, 2023, 4:15 PM UTC

KeplerBoy wrote: post #181

mananaysiempre wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

TFA also mentions Danish truckers. I’m not sure what the current state of Swedish land transport workers is in this regard, but given even the Swedish postal service has been refusing to deliver Tesla’s mail, I doubt they’ll be the weak link here.

You don't need swedish truckers though. Polish or German truckers will happily deliver your stuff to Sweden.

At a higher cost most likely.

Re: Norway Joins Denmark in Swedish Tesla Strike/Blockade

#214

Post by LemmyInThePub » Wed, Dec 06, 2023, 4:18 PM UTC

stiray wrote: post #127

I think that whole thing is just a huge misunderstanding of elmu thinking that whole world works like USA. And even in USA, union members in average earn 18% more than others. On the other side, strike and unionizing is one of basic workers rights here and you just don't fight unions in EU. As you will be losing more money than if you get to an agreement with them. When elmu started his crusade against unions, I was…

[dead]

Re: Norway Joins Denmark in Swedish Tesla Strike/Blockade

#215

Post by mrweasel » Wed, Dec 06, 2023, 4:28 PM UTC

FirmwareBurner wrote: post #196

mrweasel wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Nordics it's pretty funny to think that a bit of snow can simply grind to a halt the richest area of Germany. Yeaaah about that, Denmark is currently covered in snow and the country isn't equipped to deal with it at all. As soon as the snow starts falling busses and trains are cancelled, people realize that maybe winter tires aren't such a bad idea, roads aren't cleared because the cities don't actually have the bu…

>people realize that maybe winter tires aren't such a bad idea Hold the phone. Are you telling me winter tires are not mandatory by law in Denmark in winter?!

They are not, surprisingly. I guess the reasoning is that during a normal winter they are required for maybe a few weeks. Many won't switch because they either don't want to pay for a second set of tires, or because it hurt fuel economy for most of the winter. All year tires are also somewhat popular, but they don't work as well in snow.

You could probably get a fine for driving without them if the weather makes it unsafe, but that would be because you're not driving according to conditions.

Anyway, loads of people are driving around on summer tires during the winter and it's amazingly dangerous and they cause problems for themselves and others.

Re: Norway Joins Denmark in Swedish Tesla Strike/Blockade

#216

Post by ponector » Wed, Dec 06, 2023, 4:29 PM UTC

FirmwareBurner wrote: post #97

ponector wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Poland it is extremely hard to fire an individual with regular employment agreement. Lots of rules about overtime, work schedule, total working hours, vacations, sick leaves, payment, notice period in case of mass layoff. Labour law is strong. But people are cheap - that's what attractive for international employers. Minimum wage, costs of living in Germany is higher than in Poland. What is a minimal wage in Germa…

Poland != all of Eastern Europe. Yes, it's the same in Romania, on paper, there are loads of rules and regulations to protect the workers, but those rules are broken all the time by employers, especially in low paying jobs, because low paid employees don't have the time and money to take those employers to court, and there are next to no unions. And the labor laws are still weaker than what workers in for example Fra…

Not all, but a huge beneficiary of outsourcing factories and services.

Also in Poland labour law is covering mainly people on regular employment agreement. There are ways to get around and screw employees, but western factories and outsorcing vendors(like TCS, Capgemini) are not doing business that way.

Re: Norway Joins Denmark in Swedish Tesla Strike/Blockade

#217

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Dec 06, 2023, 4:31 PM UTC

pbasista wrote: post #39

sorenjan wrote: post #13

This and the Danish solidarity actions are mainly to prevent Tesla from shipping cars meant for the Swedish market to Danish or Norwegian ports and then trucking them to Sweden. The Swedish transport union stopped unloading Tesla cars at Swedish ports November 7, but Tesla Y was still one of the most sold car models in Sweden in November (second place between Volvo XC40 and XC60).

I believe that Tesla does not need ships to transport Tesla Model Ys from Giga Berlin to Sweden. They can use railroad. Or trucks.

[deleted]

Re: Norway Joins Denmark in Swedish Tesla Strike/Blockade

#218

Post by piva00 » Wed, Dec 06, 2023, 4:33 PM UTC

hinkley wrote: post #204

smcl wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're talking like they're acting out based on some unrelated or irrelevant thing - as if they're taking a stand against Elon Musk's stance on trans people or his rather unique ideas about what "free speech" is. The unions are acting against Tesla out of their own self-interest - Tesla do not want to collectively bargain with a union. This is not something these unions are OK with and allowing it to continue unoppos…

What is the point of a union without collective bargaining is what I want to know. It sounds like what anti union people like to portray them as. A tax on employees and nepotism.

I'm part of a union in Sweden and my employer does not have a CBA, I get from my union: income insurance (up to 12 months covering 90% of my current salary), access to free consultation with lawyers, discounts on a few services (even driving schools), and a few other benefits.

It's not a tax on employees, I consider it a quite cheap insurance.

Re: Norway Joins Denmark in Swedish Tesla Strike/Blockade

#219

Post by ImPostingOnHN » Wed, Dec 06, 2023, 4:34 PM UTC

andsoitis wrote: post #193

archagon wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All I see is the implication that it’s a giant waste of everyone’s time.

I hear your sarcasm, but it is also worth to be skeptical of the claim in that same sentence that “to direct everyone there”…

there isn't any sarcasm there, just a poster pointing out the implication that elmu's twitter antics are a giant waste of everyone’s time.

elmu's tasking of his staff to figure out why his trolling wasn't making him popular enough was a real thing, and a good example of his time wasting abilities in furtherance of his desperate, desperate, desperate need to feel popular.

Re: Norway Joins Denmark in Swedish Tesla Strike/Blockade

#220

Post by stiray » Wed, Dec 06, 2023, 4:36 PM UTC

pbasista wrote: post #39

sorenjan wrote: post #13

This and the Danish solidarity actions are mainly to prevent Tesla from shipping cars meant for the Swedish market to Danish or Norwegian ports and then trucking them to Sweden. The Swedish transport union stopped unloading Tesla cars at Swedish ports November 7, but Tesla Y was still one of the most sold car models in Sweden in November (second place between Volvo XC40 and XC60).

I believe that Tesla does not need ships to transport Tesla Model Ys from Giga Berlin to Sweden. They can use railroad. Or trucks.

I dont think, you understand the scale of the problem for Musk. If he will poke long enough, ETUC will join - and they will as he is literally twisting their arm.

"At present, the ETUC represents almost 45 million workers across Europe, affiliated to 93 national trade union confederations from 41 European countries, and 10 European Trade Union Federations (ETUFs)."

At a very modest evaluation, that is 100 million workers (probably 150 million, but I dont have stamina to get the numbers), 1/5 of people in EU. People who elect governments.

He wont be able to sell a free sample of Tesla in EU. And someone stupid enough to buy it will have windows broken on daily basis as quisling. Not something unheard of, google for BMW - Break My Window.

No one in EU is stupid enough to challenge trade unions at this scale. With a good reason.

Best solution for him would be to back off when first union intervened, get into agreement with them, claim them for his best friends ever and keep it out of the press. Now this is cultural fight, where he will need to eat shi1 to calm everything down (for youngsters that don't understand: for him, 500 million market is in play and corporations from Microsoft to Facebook were eating shi1 to sell their products there).

(btw, for people downvoting me, I am just stating the facts, feel free to verify them and argue against, downvoting wont change them, at worse it will help Musk do another stupid mistake)