Norway Joins Denmark in Swedish Tesla Strike/Blockade • Hacker News Board

Re: Norway Joins Denmark in Swedish Tesla Strike/Blockade

#101

Post by Leherenn » Wed, Dec 06, 2023, 2:35 PM UTC

yreg wrote: post #61

epolanski wrote: post #12

From what I understand the strikers aren't asking for more money or anything specific other than Tesla to honor collective bargaining with unions Tesla cannot have different deals with different shops, has to respect what it agrees with unions.

From what I understand only a small portion of Tesla workers are on strike. It's mostly union members working at other companies and institutions who are striking. E.g. the postal office workers refused to deliver Tesla's mail which is baffling to me.

I looked it up when the story broke out, and as far as I could find, it's private shipping companies (FedEx and the like) that are refusing to deliver stuff, not the national public post office. They still get regular mail delivered just fine.

Re: Norway Joins Denmark in Swedish Tesla Strike/Blockade

#102

Post by kristofferR » Wed, Dec 06, 2023, 2:35 PM UTC

contrarian1234 wrote: post #94

kristofferR wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are effectively saying: "It is crazy that they have an effective mechanism for ensuring good working conditions in their societies"

That's a very narrow view of the situation. It's not up for a small group of individuals to decide that for the whole society. Say they decide tmrw to not accept shipments from Israel. Why should a dock worker have disproportionate say in that?

It's not up to an individual, it's up to the unions, that's the whole point of them.

This isn't just some random dockworkers, this is Fellesforbundet, Norway's largest private union. Unions are usually democratic, with elected leaders.

The Israel example is absurdly weak, that has nothing to do with working conditions.

Solidarity strikes/actions aren't a new thing, they are well established things that have forced many other multinational companies to treat their Scandinavian workers better. Most of those companies, like McDonald's, eventually concede and start operating profitable ventures with good working conditions here.

Re: Norway Joins Denmark in Swedish Tesla Strike/Blockade

#103

Post by derelicta » Wed, Dec 06, 2023, 2:35 PM UTC

waihtis wrote: post #71

FirmwareBurner wrote: post #3

I would love to see an EU wide movement.

The EU economy is doing so great, we can surely afford to introduce even more bureaucracy around doing business - perhaps even a new, separate committee that all business has to go through!

You are right. Those businesses should simply be managed by the workers themselves. This way we wouldn't need parallel structures and we would still get proper representation for whose who create wealth themselves.

Re: Norway Joins Denmark in Swedish Tesla Strike/Blockade

#104

Post by simion314 » Wed, Dec 06, 2023, 2:35 PM UTC

contrarian1234 wrote: post #73

sorenjan wrote: post #13

This and the Danish solidarity actions are mainly to prevent Tesla from shipping cars meant for the Swedish market to Danish or Norwegian ports and then trucking them to Sweden. The Swedish transport union stopped unloading Tesla cars at Swedish ports November 7, but Tesla Y was still one of the most sold car models in Sweden in November (second place between Volvo XC40 and XC60).

That doesn't sound like a strike at all. They presumably are still working and getting paid their wages Legally that seems a bit crazy that shipping company workers can select what gets shipped based on their political beliefs. Next the power utility company workers are going to refuse to give Tesla electricity

>It sets a scary precedent. They in effect hold disproportionate power and can affect whole sectors of the economy to force whatever they want done

Sweden seems to have low regulation, no minimum wages so is a perfect place for an american company to take advantage, unless the peasants use their rights to strike then the billionaires are demanding regulations. As software developers we should do the same when we are asked to take part on building harfull shit, as an individual we have no power, if I refuse someone else will be paid to do it but as a union we could do some good and reduce the harm int he world.

Tesla is free to use other companies or methods to deliver, create their own delivery companies from scratch , deliver the cars with their rockets. I do not think they can cut off the power but there could be problems finding people fixing their electrical issues if they appear.

Re: Norway Joins Denmark in Swedish Tesla Strike/Blockade

#105

Post by aaomidi » Wed, Dec 06, 2023, 2:35 PM UTC

yreg wrote: post #86

kristofferR wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get that proper unions are pretty baffling from a US perspective, where people don't mind having thousands peeing in bottles at work at Amazon as long as they get the spoon they ordered the next day. Us Scandinavians on the other hand find it pretty baffling that someone would just roll over to a megalomaniac who clearly states he would like to destroy what makes our countries great, our unions and working conditio…

I'm a European working in a country with strong labour laws. But I wouldn't want a specific union to have a monopoly over my entire country and in case I don't want them to they shouldn't meddle with my work. And to be honest I believe that the state postal workers should have absolutely no say on whether someone gets their mail delivered.

I mean, you’re wrong because the only way to implement what you’re suggesting is policing unions.

The whole point of the union system is to be a separate pillar of power to the state to keep it in check.

Re: Norway Joins Denmark in Swedish Tesla Strike/Blockade

#106

Post by contrarian1234 » Wed, Dec 06, 2023, 2:36 PM UTC

kristofferR wrote: post #91

contrarian1234 wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Never heard of a shipping company refusing to ship based on political belief

That's nothing, whole genders have striked before: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1975_Icelandic_women%27s_strik...

A bit apples to oranges. That's an actual strike. They don't go in to work and they don't get paid. They didn't selectively continue working but only for X that they decided are they good guys

Re: Norway Joins Denmark in Swedish Tesla Strike/Blockade

#107

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Dec 06, 2023, 2:36 PM UTC

kristofferR wrote: post #74

yreg wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From what I understand only a small portion of Tesla workers are on strike. It's mostly union members working at other companies and institutions who are striking. E.g. the postal office workers refused to deliver Tesla's mail which is baffling to me.

I get that proper unions are pretty baffling from a US perspective, where people don't mind having thousands peeing in bottles at work at Amazon as long as they get the spoon they ordered the next day. Us Scandinavians on the other hand find it pretty baffling that someone would just roll over to a megalomaniac who clearly states he would like to destroy what makes our countries great, our unions and working conditio…

[deleted]

Re: Norway Joins Denmark in Swedish Tesla Strike/Blockade

#108

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Dec 06, 2023, 2:36 PM UTC

mint2 wrote: post #95

cultureswitch wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Funny, I wonder what sort of beef transport unions have with Tesla specifically. Also, I wonder if it would completely kill their margin to just have a horde of workers drive the cars individually to Sweden.

Because if Tesla prevails in not having a collective bargaining agreement, then it opens the door to all companies doing the same thing and potentially destroys all unions as they are now.

[deleted]

Re: Norway Joins Denmark in Swedish Tesla Strike/Blockade

#109

Post by fxtentacle » Wed, Dec 06, 2023, 2:37 PM UTC

eggy wrote: post #84

andsoitis wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If he wants to be remembered as the dude global labor had to organize against, I mean, the bar is already pretty low where he's at but perhaps we have yet to hit bedrock. Probably with a bit to be said about dying a hero or living long enough to become the villain through the appropriate lens. Highly recommend watching the full interview that Andrew Ross Sorkin did with Elon Musk (it is the one where he told advert…

Agreed, and if Norway, Sweden, and Denmark, are for the people, let the people decide whether want to buy a Tesla and support Elon. Cutting off shipping to their rightful owners sounds like you are curtailing your own citizens from living as they please. Would be interesting if they and other countries unions had stopped the shipments of iPhones to their citizen consumers due to the working conditions and no unions a…

You can still drive from Sweden to Germany and buy a Tesla there, if you care enough about it.

BTW, you will always reach the point where you need to "curtail[..] your own citizens from living as they please" or else you'll end up with kids blowing up your stuff just for the fun of it.

Re: Norway Joins Denmark in Swedish Tesla Strike/Blockade

#110

Post by suoduandao3 » Wed, Dec 06, 2023, 2:37 PM UTC

marricks wrote: post #40

andsoitis wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If he wants to be remembered as the dude global labor had to organize against, I mean, the bar is already pretty low where he's at but perhaps we have yet to hit bedrock. Probably with a bit to be said about dying a hero or living long enough to become the villain through the appropriate lens. Highly recommend watching the full interview that Andrew Ross Sorkin did with Elon Musk (it is the one where he told advert…

MANY things he does are explicitly to be liked. That’s why he posts all the time, goes on interviews, shows up on SNL. Buys a social media company then burns company hours on figuring out why he isn’t the most viewed person on it. He really, really, wants to be internet liked, that’s he claims he doesn’t care about.

I think he wants to be polarizing. It's not the same thing.