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Heavy marijuana use increases schizophrenia in men, study finds

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Re: Heavy marijuana use increases schizophrenia in men, study finds

#211

Post by coffeebeqn »

mise_en_place wrote: post #195
whats_a_quasar wrote: post #41

There's a really interesting line of research that suggests Schizophrenia is a spectrum, rather than a binary. Lots of people have personality traits that are similar to schizophrenics or have genetic risk factors for the condition. Some of those people develop the full disorder, and some don't. There's evidence that the reason for the split is that psychosis is itself damaging. Once someone has a psychotic episode,…

There is a high correlation between intelligence and mental illness. For example, John Nash also had paranoid schizophrenia. The way your mind encodes information seems to be correlated with perceptual disturbances.

I wonder if that’ll be the case for AI?

Re: Heavy marijuana use increases schizophrenia in men, study finds

#212

Post by skissane »

copperx wrote: post #194
whats_a_quasar wrote: post #41

There's a really interesting line of research that suggests Schizophrenia is a spectrum, rather than a binary. Lots of people have personality traits that are similar to schizophrenics or have genetic risk factors for the condition. Some of those people develop the full disorder, and some don't. There's evidence that the reason for the split is that psychosis is itself damaging. Once someone has a psychotic episode,…

> Schizophrenia is a spectrum, rather than a binary. Spectrum is not the opposite of binary. You probably mean gradient, from your context. This is more than just a pedantic observation. Autism spectrum disorder is often misconstrued by the general public as a gradient, which is not accurate.

> Autism spectrum disorder is often misconstrued by the general public as a gradient, which is not accurate.

If one accepts the dimensional model of psychiatric diagnosis, then almost all psychiatric disorders are "gradients" – ASD included. If you are calling the dimensional model "not accurate", I disagree

I think the biggest thing where the general public misconstrues things is with "autism"="spectrum". The DSM-5 contains both the autism spectrum and the schizophrenia spectrum, although the former is conceptualised as a single disorder, the latter as a family of related disorders. There is also a brief mention of the concept of the "obsessive-compulsive spectrum", although that concept did not make it into the main body of the text. In the research literature, you'll find heaps more "spectrums" proposed – for example, the "disruptive behaviour disorder spectrum" (composed of ADHD, oppositional-defiant disorder, conduct disorder and antisocial personality disorder) and the "bipolar spectrum" (bipolar I, bipolar II, cyclothymia – some add other conditions such as disruptive mood dysregulation disorder)

Re: Heavy marijuana use increases schizophrenia in men, study finds

#213

Post by operatingthetan »

EdwardDiego wrote: post #135
muffles wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Once someone has a psychotic episode, they are much likelier to have more. An anecdotal observation of this in media is when comedian Owen Benjamin took a "Stars of Death" edible on the Joey Diaz podcast. It was argued that this was the point his big break with reality occurred (delusions and conspiracy seen everywhere). Another interesting observation is that THC seems to intensify the effect of amphetamines like…

I have ADHD treated with methylphenidate, and smoke weed recreationally, and that "interesting observation" doesn't align with my experiences at all.

It doesn't work with MPH... amphetamines only. It's best to be at least in the same family of drugs when talking about interactions like that. I would strongly recommend not switching to adderall to try though.

Re: Heavy marijuana use increases schizophrenia in men, study finds

#214

Post by derangedHorse »

josephcsible wrote: post #186
csomar wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My understanding is that schizophernia is a predisposed condition. Cannabis can trigger it but not really cause it. (That's at least what I got from talking to a professional). One clue to find out whether you are predisposed is if you have someone in the family (related genetically) who has at-birth mental health issues. Then stay a gazillion miles clear of any drugs.

> My understanding is that schizophernia is a predisposed condition. Cannabis can trigger it but not really cause it. If something is flammable, and so predisposed to burning, and you hold a lit match to it, you did cause the fire. You didn't just trigger it.

Your analogy isn't equivalent to what was said. To be 1-1 with the OP, you'd be arguing that the lighter caused something to be flammable. Causing a *fire* is something else.

Similarly someone can be schizophrenic but have an *episode* caused by weed. The weed didn't make them schizophrenic but it did cause an episode to happen.

Re: Heavy marijuana use increases schizophrenia in men, study finds

#215

Post by CapsAdmin »

kodah wrote: post #128
aatd86 wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Genetic cause is often what is claimed of things that are not very well understood at all. Myopia being one of them for instance. (it's actually often an adaptation process that is actually found to be reversible) Wrt SZ, not only is it very badly understood but a lot of the symptoms can be attributed to biochemical disorders and that does not necessarily imply a genetic predisposition at all. Caffeine can induce psy…

> Then again, who knows what lies in people heads too? Perhaps that the thoughts they hear are real and some people just can't process it properly which drive them to do strange things. We discount people's experience but there are so little ways to non-intrusively explore people's internal state. A true scientist wouldn't discount that possibility too. One of my best friends was schizophrenic and he described the ex…

I think it's really like hearing an external sound, it's not something you consciously control. I feel like I heard a hypothesis somewhere that maybe there's something off about what you perceive as your own conscious thoughts. Obviously everything is coming from your own brain, so I would argue they are your own thoughts but we're just talking about the perception of being your own thoughts.

Related to this, some schizophrenics think that thoughts are being placed in their head by something external or that they perceive thoughts from other people. Telepathy is also a common rationalization.

Re: Heavy marijuana use increases schizophrenia in men, study finds

#216

Post by Mike_12345 »

mandmandam wrote: post #202
Mike_12345 wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I firmly believe that psychedelics are triggers and not the cause of mental disorders If a neurotoxic drug such as cannabis causes psychosis in someone who would otherwise never have become psychotic without the drug, then whether you call it a cause or a trigger is quibbling over semantics.

Sorry, neurotoxic ? That's not a settled debate; not remotely. There are many reasons to believe cannabis is neuroprotective. Especially when using safe, high CBD, high cannabinoid varieties; a rather vital distinction. And it's not semantics, because you can't make the assumption that people would "never have become psychotic without the drug". On a population scale, such an effect would have stood out by now if it…

> That's not a settled debate; not remotely.

In my opinion it is neurotoxic, based on studies I have seen (such as this one that we are commenting on) plus my own direct personal experience. Even without the psychoactive components, the smoke is carcinogenic (like tobacco) and toxic to all cells, including neurons. Go take a massive bong hit, then tell me your mind and lungs feel healthy. Cannabis is blatantly toxic filth.

> because you can't make the assumption that people would "never have become psychotic without the drug"

Somehow you are ignoring the entire point of the article/study that we are commenting on.

Re: Heavy marijuana use increases schizophrenia in men, study finds

#217

Post by CapsAdmin »

aatd86 wrote: post #40
mikhmha wrote: post #5

I really recommend people interested in Schizophrenia to read the book “Hidden Valley Road”. I saw it recommended in a HN comment previously. The book follows an American family who gave birth to 12 children, 6 of whom were later diagnosed with schizophrenia in their teens. It’s interesting because the book gives lots of insight into the historical to modern research on the condition. In the past psychologists though…

Genetic cause is often what is claimed of things that are not very well understood at all. Myopia being one of them for instance. (it's actually often an adaptation process that is actually found to be reversible) Wrt SZ, not only is it very badly understood but a lot of the symptoms can be attributed to biochemical disorders and that does not necessarily imply a genetic predisposition at all. Caffeine can induce psy…

For as long as I can remember I have this thing where I hear sounds, voices and sometimes see things depending on how tired I am. It almost never happens when moving around, it sometimes happen when sitting still and often happens when trying to sleep or wake up in the morning. But always goes away as soon as I move around or start using my brain somehow.

However when consuming THC these symptoms are heightened to something that feels like 50x and they occur even when awake and moving around.

The symptoms are also heightened a little bit when consuming alcohol and especially when trying to sleep.

If I stay up very late it's also a lot more intense when trying to sleep.

I consume a lot of caffeine in general, but I don't think it heightens my symptoms directly. Maybe indirectly it makes me stay up longer depending on when I consume.

(I've had cats most of my life too!)

Re: Heavy marijuana use increases schizophrenia in men, study finds

#219

Post by mandmandam »

Mike_12345 wrote: post #216
mandmandam wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, neurotoxic ? That's not a settled debate; not remotely. There are many reasons to believe cannabis is neuroprotective. Especially when using safe, high CBD, high cannabinoid varieties; a rather vital distinction. And it's not semantics, because you can't make the assumption that people would "never have become psychotic without the drug". On a population scale, such an effect would have stood out by now if it…

> That's not a settled debate; not remotely. In my opinion it is neurotoxic, based on studies I have seen (such as this one that we are commenting on) plus my own direct personal experience. Even without the psychoactive components, the smoke is carcinogenic (like tobacco) and toxic to all cells, including neurons. Go take a massive bong hit, then tell me your mind and lungs feel healthy. Cannabis is blatantly toxic…

> Cannabis is blatantly toxic filth

No, it isn't. It's medicine, and remarkably harmless recreation. It saves many lives, and enhances quality of life for millions of people. It has a smorgasbord of health benefits.

It does have side effects, and drawbacks. It's not a panacea, and it doesn't suit every one. It's not for kids (except when it's medically worth it).

But calling it "blatantly toxic filth" is wildly inflammatory... Which is funny, because cannabis reduces inflammation. With far less toxic effects than most anti-inflammatories.

> you are ignoring the entire point of the article/study that we are commenting on.

I disagree with the methods and conclusion. As do plenty of people here, who have pointed out the flaws with the article and the study, for example, the very serious correlation/causation issues.

To talk about schizophrenia and cannabis without ever mentioning CBD is remarkably dishonest. THC concentration merits a single sideways mention. This is bad science and worse journalism, and it smells like big pharma.

Which wouldn't surprise me at all. Cannabis hurts their profits. Painkiller use goes way down after legalization and decriminalization - as do prescription painkiller deaths.

Re: Heavy marijuana use increases schizophrenia in men, study finds

#220

Post by _cvvf »

progmetaldev wrote: post #112
xupybd wrote: post #88

My father was a mental health social worker. He worked with youths, mainly teens. In his experience the vast majority of teens that ended up in his hospital had some drug fueled episode that led to their mental health crisis. He told me that he didn't think the drugs caused the mental illness but we're often the trigger. That is these kids already had a mental illness that had not started to present symptoms until it…

I'm very much for individual freedom when it comes to drug use, assuming you aren't hurting others. I think in the push for cannabis legalization, many people have forgotten that cannabis is a psychedelic drug. While it's not the same as LSD or psilocybin, it can definitely change perception and thinking. In 1996 I had a psychotic episode from LSD, and developed generalized anxiety disorder and panic disorder. I alwa…

Very similar experience here. I had a psychotic episode last summer on shrooms, and have since struggled with anxiety. I definitely agree that if you have any pre-existing mental health issues at all, using psychedelics is playing with fire.
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