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US border forces are seizing Americans' phone data and storing it for 15 years

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Re: US border forces are seizing Americans' phone data and storing it for 15 years

#211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have something like that with "golden visas/golden passports" already here in Europe. The result was a bunch of Russian oligarchs with Schengen freedom of movement [1]. [1] https://www.dw.com/en/eu-threatens-legal-action-over-maltas-...

So maybe we don't want all the rich people? And we probably want some of the poor people. There is a shortage of all sorts of labor afterall. The real issue is that there is no good way to verify the identity or non-criminal nature of any of the migrants. You can create a solid ID at the time of entry and start tracking there at least.

Every country asks for your criminal record and does background checks before issueing visas. You are trying to reinvent a system that existed for decades

Re: US border forces are seizing Americans' phone data and storing it for 15 years

#212
post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They took my laptop in the back for just 30 minutes or so, after which I refused to accept it back from them or even touch it, which took another 2 hours or so. Eventually they agreed to dispose of it themselves.

Were they surprised at your refusal?

They had no idea how to react, lol

Re: US border forces are seizing Americans' phone data and storing it for 15 years

#213
post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They took my laptop in the back for just 30 minutes or so, after which I refused to accept it back from them or even touch it, which took another 2 hours or so. Eventually they agreed to dispose of it themselves.

Why not just throw it away yourself?

It was out of my sight for half an hour, I'm not so much as touching it again after that.

Re: US border forces are seizing Americans' phone data and storing it for 15 years

#214

Read the book "Habeas Data" It's a great overview of digital privacy and protection laws in the US , how they came about, and what protections they actually offer. The short answer is "very few" and the long answer is "never ever ever turn over your data short of a court order and even then try to fight it." Then with Third Party Doctrine, most of the few/limited privacy/warrant rules go out the window. Also, I'm not…

If you don't read the 'Accept Me' On most random websites nowadays, most people are just openly giving up access to their devices/data without even knowing it.

Re: US border forces are seizing Americans' phone data and storing it for 15 years

#215

On my last trip back from Europe in June, when I re-entered the US, US Customs & Border Control didn't ask for my passport. No one did. They did wave a webcam connected to a computer in front of my face, and then a moment later, called out my name and said I could enter. Same with everyone coming through the international border area. I think that's just as weird a development and worthy of "WTH?" as this topic.

At the passport control kiosks, they can just scan your face and give you an exit ticket. It was super quick, and surprising. I was able to skip talking to an immigration agent completely. They can do this because they have photos of me from previous kiosk visits, and because they can restrict the universe of photos they need to check to just those who were on recent flights. I wonder how well it works for twins traveling together or something. For any level of uncertainty, they can just have you go talk to a human instead.

Re: US border forces are seizing Americans' phone data and storing it for 15 years

#216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They took my laptop in the back for just 30 minutes or so, after which I refused to accept it back from them or even touch it, which took another 2 hours or so. Eventually they agreed to dispose of it themselves.

Did you get reimbursed?

Never even occurred to me

Re: US border forces are seizing Americans' phone data and storing it for 15 years

#217

On my last trip back from Europe in June, when I re-entered the US, US Customs & Border Control didn't ask for my passport. No one did. They did wave a webcam connected to a computer in front of my face, and then a moment later, called out my name and said I could enter. Same with everyone coming through the international border area. I think that's just as weird a development and worthy of "WTH?" as this topic.

Pretty much all passports have biometrics now. I assume they can work out who you are from that.

In Australia it's an autogate with a face scan for citizens and PR's, you only deal with a person if it can't identify you, which is rare.

Re: US border forces are seizing Americans' phone data and storing it for 15 years

#218

Lot's of people fantasizing about what they'll do at the border with weaponizing the data on a burner phone. Let me present a "simpler" and actually realistic option (only for US citizens) on how to handle this: 1. Have a reasonable amount of emergency savings (6-8 months of expenses stored). 2. Have someone in-country who isn't traveling with you who can make sure your bills get paid (financial power of attorney). 3…

Which country(s) other than the US were the most problematic / worst? Personally I've had more aggravation at the Canadian border than any European country.

Many countries are worse to deal with than the US at the border during entry. Ironically, most of the worst ones are wealthy / "low corruption" countries, because they have well-paid, interested people at the border, who also don't like having their authority challenged in any way. The UK and Canada are both significantly worse to deal with than the US, probably my worst experience on entry though was Australia. IMO, the Australian government is maliciously incompetent at every level /and/ at the same time fastidiously aligned to their maliciously incompetent policies. A lot of folks in the West don't realize that Australia is closer to China than the US when it comes to digital freedom and privacy.

All the less-wealthy and "more corrupt" places I've traveled were far easier to deal with at the border. It's happened so many times I've lost count that the border agent didn't even look at me /or/ my passport before stamping a random page and yelling "Next". This doesn't happen in countries where the person at the border is well-paid and engaged in their job, it happens when they are bored, disinterested, and just want to go home. With one exception, all my worst border experiences were in wealthy countries. The one exception I won't discuss in detail publicly, but it was while leaving, not arriving, and at any rate wasn't due to their border agency but rather their secret police mistaking me for a journalist.

Another observation I have is that only foreigners really get the worst treatment, so this may be why I haven't felt so badly about the US CBP, while I hear from my non-American friends and acquaintances that the US is the worst one to deal with. I'm sure any citizens of the countries I've mentioned will be quick to defend them in the comments in reply. After all, when you're a citizen, it's generally pretty painless to get back into the country of your citizenship. As a foreigner you face more scrutiny and have less legal protections.

Re: US border forces are seizing Americans' phone data and storing it for 15 years

#219

On my last trip back from Europe in June, when I re-entered the US, US Customs & Border Control didn't ask for my passport. No one did. They did wave a webcam connected to a computer in front of my face, and then a moment later, called out my name and said I could enter. Same with everyone coming through the international border area. I think that's just as weird a development and worthy of "WTH?" as this topic.

Do you have global entry?

Re: US border forces are seizing Americans' phone data and storing it for 15 years

#220

Terrifying for only 2 reasons: 1. Any malicious person savvy enough to pull off a crime of interest to the Feds is smart enough to provide a wiped or burner phone to DHS/ICE, and they have to know this. So, what is the point in doing this if not to target law abiding citizens. 2. USGOV has a spotty track record of keeping this information secure. A foreign actor is likely to access this info eventually. As one former…

> 1. Any malicious person savvy enough to pull off a crime of interest to the Feds is smart enough to provide a wiped or burner phone to DHS/ICE, and they have to know this. So, what is the point in doing this if not to target law abiding citizens. This isn't even remotely true. See for example the recent Anom honeypot[1]. Criminals do more or less the same things that ordinary citizens do, and often have strictly wo…

Although grandparent's logic is faulty, I think it does go to an important point. They don't need 15 years warrantless storage of phone data. On anyone, including foreigners. If it takes them 15 years to realise they shouldn't have let someone over the border it is around 14 to 14.995 years too late.

The powers these agencies have is far in excesses of what they need to do their jobs, and it is going to be abused. These aren't particularly upstanding people, they're the sort who think DHS/ICE represents an ideal that they are OK with.

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