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Apple buying Google ads for high-value subscription apps

forbes.com

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Re: Apple buying Google ads for high-value subscription apps

#211

Post by madeofpalk »

Mertax wrote: post #194
gregkerzhner wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

MacOS is a great example - you can buy and download software from the Apple sanctioned App Store or you can get it from other sources on their websites. The fact that I can do that on an 11 inch MacBook Air but can’t on an iPad Pro (which with a keyboard looks like almost the same device) seems pretty silly to me.

I see no incentive for Apple to become motivated to do this on their own. Google, Nintendo, Sony, Microsoft all wish their app stores could be as lucrative as Apple’s, and most of these are trying to do exactly what Apple is doing. What other product exists that is able to take such a large revenue cut from 3rd party product enhancers? Is this possible outside of software? Don’t see why Apple would give that up unles…

That's kind of the point, right? What forces or incentives are there for Apple to change its practices or lower its prices?

Re: Apple buying Google ads for high-value subscription apps

#212

Post by madeofpalk »

iscrewyou wrote: post #200
madeofpalk wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m all in favour, as a user, for Apple IAP subscriptions. But shouldn’t “the market” be able to send a signal that they prefer that? Shouldn’t Apple’s IAP actually be able to compete on its merits (like the better experience that we both prefer!) rather than arbitrary platform lock-in? If, faced with actual competition, users and/or developers do not chose Apple IAP, wouldn’t this signal to Apple that they need to d…

Not OP, but market does send a signal when I prefer that. That's how I signed up for Netflix and Spotify. I saw that in-app prices were high when I tried to sign up, looked elsewhere and found out that website prices are lower and now apple doesn't get my cut. But for everything else, I am happy paying apple more because I only have trust for a few companies. If apple is charging app developers more than they should…

> If apple is charging app developers more than they should be, those apps can have their own billing page and manage the billing and let the user decide how they want to pay for it.

The problem is that on iOS apps are forbidden from telling their users that this is an option.

It's not much of a fair market if one of the items have been removed from the shelves and you have to specifically ask for it and the price.

Is it fair if Spotify and Netflix are charged a 30% tax on Apple's platforms when Apple's services arent?

Re: Apple buying Google ads for high-value subscription apps

#213

Post by indymike »

ChildOfChaos wrote: post #53
indymike wrote: post #19

This is monopolistic behavior all the way. Let's leverage our cash to make it more expensive to get customers, and force app publishers to sell their product through our channel. This needs to be stopped. Now.

How? Apple is spending it’s money to help promote apps on it’s service, i feel like people attack apple whatever they do. But doesn’t this help defend a 30% app fee, when apple is also paying marketing costs to help the app get more customers through it’s service?

> feel like people attack apple whatever they do.

I agree. When you have as much economic power as Apple does every move has some side effect. In this case they are actually doing something nefarious and the side effect is simply shifting app company profits to Apple.

Re: Apple buying Google ads for high-value subscription apps

#214

Post by louisswiss »

madeofpalk wrote: post #212
iscrewyou wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not OP, but market does send a signal when I prefer that. That's how I signed up for Netflix and Spotify. I saw that in-app prices were high when I tried to sign up, looked elsewhere and found out that website prices are lower and now apple doesn't get my cut. But for everything else, I am happy paying apple more because I only have trust for a few companies. If apple is charging app developers more than they should…

> If apple is charging app developers more than they should be, those apps can have their own billing page and manage the billing and let the user decide how they want to pay for it. The problem is that on iOS apps are forbidden from telling their users that this is an option. It's not much of a fair market if one of the items have been removed from the shelves and you have to specifically ask for it and the price. I…

> It's not much of a fair market if one of the items have been removed from the shelves and you have to specifically ask for it and the price.

To be fair, this isn't a very apt analogy.

A better one would be to liken Apple to a smart fridge...

- Is it ok for Apple to say "only products bought through our smart fridge's grocery app can be stored in this fridge" ? --> probably not

- Is it ok for Apple to take a cut when the consumer purchases through the smart fridge's app directly? --> IMO clearly yes

- Should Apple be required to warn you that it'd be cheaper to buy the same brand of milk from a grocery store 10min walk away? --> IMO clearly no

Re: Apple buying Google ads for high-value subscription apps

#215

Post by djbusby »

nemothekid wrote: post #199
djbusby wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, or there's me, with no dark patterns, easy cancellation (one email, we answer our phone) on a $1000/mo subscription app. And the hoops to get into apple, and they wanted a cut, even when users create an account and engage from our plain web-app ages before trying for iOS app. It took almost a year to get approved with Mostly our terms, apple forced a bunch of changes - which frustrated our users (who just went…

Yes, I'm sorry the millions of developers with their $3.99/mo apps ruined the experience for your unicorn $1,000/mo app. I'm sure your users, with such a high need that they would pay so much, are perfectly able to find a workaround.

Thanks! Yea, they were, as I commented, it's all just web-app, which works in Safari

Re: Apple buying Google ads for high-value subscription apps

#216

Post by [deleted] »

sharken wrote: post #198
ev1 wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I say cancel in one tap, what I mean is I have a list of every subscription I am holding, and I pick that one and it goes. I do not want any kind of retention, I do not want to be messaged in any way, just stop renewal. I do not want to call in, live chat, give a reason, etc.

So sort of a one-click buy experience, only for cancelling a subscription. I think that would be great, except many companies care more about holding on to users than the user itself. But i think it's a great idea, it could even be listed as a feature/badge when signing up. [X] Easy one-click cancellation.

[deleted]

Re: Apple buying Google ads for high-value subscription apps

#217

Post by javajosh »

tgsovlerkhgsel wrote: post #184
webmobdev wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indian laws are quite clear that Google has an obligation not to allow ads on trademarked terms (used as keywords): > Justice V Kameswar Rao also observed that allowing individuals who are not owners of a trademark to choose a keyword which is a trademarked term or use parts of the trademark interspersed with generic words in the Ad-title or Ad-text may constitute an infringement of a trademark or it's passing off. T…

My guess would be that the developers gave Apple permission to abuse them in this and other ways when they signed up for the app store.

This is my understanding as well. Although it would be interesting if Indian law forbids entities from signing away this right. (Not all contracts are valid in all jurisdictions - which is certainly well-known to the general public, because every individual hires an attorney to review every Terms of Service, and makes sure they understand and agree with every clause before they agree to it.)

Re: Apple buying Google ads for high-value subscription apps

#218

Post by madeofpalk »

louisswiss wrote: post #214
madeofpalk wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If apple is charging app developers more than they should be, those apps can have their own billing page and manage the billing and let the user decide how they want to pay for it. The problem is that on iOS apps are forbidden from telling their users that this is an option. It's not much of a fair market if one of the items have been removed from the shelves and you have to specifically ask for it and the price. I…

> It's not much of a fair market if one of the items have been removed from the shelves and you have to specifically ask for it and the price. To be fair, this isn't a very apt analogy. A better one would be to liken Apple to a smart fridge... - Is it ok for Apple to say "only products bought through our smart fridge's grocery app can be stored in this fridge" ? --> probably not - Is it ok for Apple to take a cut whe…

Should Apple be required to warn you that it'd be cheaper? Definitely not. But when you've taken the milk home the milk should be able to say "Hey, If you buy directly from us it's 30% cheaper!".

Right now Apple prohibits developers from being transparent about what the users choices are. I think it is wrong that developers are not allowed to explain the rules to its own users.

Apple should compete on the product itself, not technicalities and obfuscation. There should be pressures on Apple to lower prices for what it charges.

Re: Apple buying Google ads for high-value subscription apps

#219

Post by wayoutthere »

chrischen wrote: post #209
wayoutthere wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chargebacks are no panacea for dark patterns; issue too many and you’ll start getting your card blacklisted from payment processors. I did this a couple times with an online retail store that was especially egregious on the dark patterns (sneaking things into your cart on checkout, etc) and my card would get rejected at certain gas pumps and online stores for the next 6 months. It wasn’t all of them, but a good 25% s…

While it’s possible Stripe implement this implicitly via their “fraud detection” machine learning model I’ve never heard of any blacklists currently being used and I operate an online retailer. That being said you’d have to be purchasing from shady merchants quite a lot and using lots of chargebacks (and presumably losing them) to be blanketed.

It was a few instances where a store crammed something in my cart, then ignored all contact when I requested to return them. So I ended up with both the money and the merch, which I suspect means they flagged me for “fraud”.

Needless to say I don’t shop at that store anymore.

Re: Apple buying Google ads for high-value subscription apps

#220

Post by noobquestion81 »

threeseed wrote: post #135
noobquestion81 wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it would be completely crazy if apple did this without entering into a special contract with google. Theres no way some sales engineer just signed up for a google ads account one day

I have no idea why you think this is crazy. a) Apple will be a big customer for Google but nothing compared to companies like P&G who manage hundreds of products or those who have more competitive search terms. And in this particular case it's neither. b) Apple has a dedicated App Store Marketing team who likely signed up or maybe they used their main account. Either way it's pretty simple and you don't need to ask G…

Fair points, ty for the rebuttal
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