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Apple buying Google ads for high-value subscription apps

forbes.com

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Re: Apple buying Google ads for high-value subscription apps

#191

Post by commoner »

wayoutthere wrote: post #178
chrischen wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s already a solution to dark patterns: chargebacks. Apple probably makes it worse by taking this avenue away because if you try to chargeback apple they probably just suspend your account.

Chargebacks are no panacea for dark patterns; issue too many and you’ll start getting your card blacklisted from payment processors. I did this a couple times with an online retail store that was especially egregious on the dark patterns (sneaking things into your cart on checkout, etc) and my card would get rejected at certain gas pumps and online stores for the next 6 months. It wasn’t all of them, but a good 25% s…

I have never heard of a universal blacklist for chargebacks (spanning multiple unrelated businesses), and I don't think it exists. I've charged back transactions for legitimate reasons (such as fraud and false advertising) on quite a few occasions, and I've never received any kind of penalty. Even if there were such a blacklist, you could simply ask your card issuer to change your card number to get around it. In fact, when you perform a chargeback for a fradulent transaction, most card issuers immediately cancel your card and issue you a new one with a new number.

Now if you file a chargeback against Apple or Google, your account with that company will almost certainly be permanently disabled, based on what I've heard from users who have done it. This is a significant setback for consumer protections, and makes it less advisable to concentrate your digital identity into either of these companies' services. However, as inconvenient as it may be to get banned from having an account with Apple/Google, it shouldn't blacklist you from using your card at any gas stations or online stores, assuming that you aren't using Apple/Google payment processing.

Re: Apple buying Google ads for high-value subscription apps

#192

Post by bagels »

andreareina wrote: post #186
bagels wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are minimum per transaction fees for most processors, so if you go at this alone, and you'd find that charging very small increments may not be feasible.

That's up to the developer though isn't it?

Yes. I was just explaining one likely reason for this limit.

Re: Apple buying Google ads for high-value subscription apps

#193

Post by bradgessler »

offtotheraces wrote: post #150
Terretta wrote: post #127

> When people buy access to a service via a subscription in an iOS app, they are essentially Apple’s customers. For privacy reasons Apple does not provide much information about them to the apps or businesses that run the apps. That means it’s hard to do customer service, address issues, or solve any problems. > “The user experience is much worse,” a marketing executive from one company told me. “When you buy with th…

Mobile app operator here - let me clarify some things: 1. Until June it was impossible for a developer to issue a refund to an angry customer - Apple simply did not allow developers to do that, despite the app store being around for 13 years. This has led to untold frustration among developers - angry customers email us, leave horrible reviews, leave screeds on social media about how we “won’t” refund them, when in a…

It’s insane that Apple publishes tabled of all the “allowed” prices in a PDF file.

If you haven’t seen it, it’s because you’ve never read the App Store agreement. They have a table in the PDF that lists out every single price you can charge. $0.99, $1.99, $2.99, … , $999.99. Per country too. Want to charge $1.49? Sorry, it’s not on the table of prices. It’s just absurd.

Re: Apple buying Google ads for high-value subscription apps

#194

Post by Mertax »

gregkerzhner wrote: post #181
darkwizard42 wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To some degree the competition exists...you leave the iOS ecosystem. Besides all the trendy parts of owning an iPhone (iMessage, camera, "fashionable") the simplicity of not getting burned by apps (or the veneer or not getting burned as often) is clearly valuable to consumers. What would an acceptable solution to letting both styles compete? (would it be controlled by the phone's settings and the end user can change…

MacOS is a great example - you can buy and download software from the Apple sanctioned App Store or you can get it from other sources on their websites. The fact that I can do that on an 11 inch MacBook Air but can’t on an iPad Pro (which with a keyboard looks like almost the same device) seems pretty silly to me.

I see no incentive for Apple to become motivated to do this on their own.

Google, Nintendo, Sony, Microsoft all wish their app stores could be as lucrative as Apple’s, and most of these are trying to do exactly what Apple is doing.

What other product exists that is able to take such a large revenue cut from 3rd party product enhancers? Is this possible outside of software? Don’t see why Apple would give that up unless they were forced to.

Re: Apple buying Google ads for high-value subscription apps

#195

Post by howinteresting »

offtotheraces wrote: post #151
ev1 wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an iOS user, I do not want the publisher knowing anything about me. I'm happy to pay for the app, but I do not want to tell the publisher a single thing other than the fact that it is paid. Nothing else. I do not want to share my email, I do not want to share any form of cardholder data. I want to cancel in one tap for any subscription. I do not want to go through shitty, abusive retention flows.

Until last year it took 11 taps to cancel through iOS. Bet it’s a whole lot less if you try to cancel HBO from their website.

Last I checked, it's also incredibly difficult to cancel an Apple subscription if you've switched away from the ecosystem and all you have on hand is Linux and Android.

Re: Apple buying Google ads for high-value subscription apps

#196

Post by zaptheimpaler »

FridayoLeary wrote: post #5
pfortuny wrote: post #2

> Apple is trying maximize the money they’re making … And that is the problem with our modern companies. The only morals is making money. What a pitiful excuse.

can you explain to me this attitude, which i see a lot? Obviously the entire reason for a companys' existence is to make money why should we expect anything else? Also this is true for every company in history. Of course we must demand companies meet minimum moral standards such as not using slaves (which would be unthinkable today in 2021 cough ) but those must be imposed on them by law. This is a genuine question p…

None of this is written on a tablet handed down to us by God. Companies exist to serve society, not make money, and when the two are in conflict we have to do something. The government should step in to regulate when things go wrong, but go look at any recent tech hearing from US senators (seriously do it) - they are incredibly clueless. One of them was questioning Sundar Pichai about iPhones.

So if companies are happy to maximize profit with the only barrier being law, and the lawmakers are too clueless/slow to make effective laws quickly, what are we supposed to do?

Re: Apple buying Google ads for high-value subscription apps

#197

Post by jasonlotito »

Terretta wrote: post #127

> When people buy access to a service via a subscription in an iOS app, they are essentially Apple’s customers. For privacy reasons Apple does not provide much information about them to the apps or businesses that run the apps. That means it’s hard to do customer service, address issues, or solve any problems. > “The user experience is much worse,” a marketing executive from one company told me. “When you buy with th…

> Now interview a real user of subscriptions instead of a brand marketing executive and ask them if the user experience is worse.

I'd say the same thing. Much prefer dealing with individual app developers. I go out of my way to purchase through them over Apple. It's far more secure for me as a consumer to go through individual app developers than through Apple.

Re: Apple buying Google ads for high-value subscription apps

#198

Post by sharken »

ev1 wrote: post #159
offtotheraces wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Until last year it took 11 taps to cancel through iOS. Bet it’s a whole lot less if you try to cancel HBO from their website.

When I say cancel in one tap, what I mean is I have a list of every subscription I am holding, and I pick that one and it goes. I do not want any kind of retention, I do not want to be messaged in any way, just stop renewal. I do not want to call in, live chat, give a reason, etc.

So sort of a one-click buy experience, only for cancelling a subscription.

I think that would be great, except many companies care more about holding on to users than the user itself.

But i think it's a great idea, it could even be listed as a feature/badge when signing up.

[X] Easy one-click cancellation.

Re: Apple buying Google ads for high-value subscription apps

#199

Post by nemothekid »

djbusby wrote: post #173
asimilator wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Apple doesn’t allow subscriptions priced at less than $0.99. Why not? What if I had a product that i wanted to sell for $0.50 a month? I’d pay $0.50 more. I just had the unpleasant experience of canceling a non-Apple controlled service. It sucked. Pages and pages of “are you sure you want to cancel” dark patterns. You guys did this to yourselves with absolutely shitty customer experience. Could not care less if App…

Right, or there's me, with no dark patterns, easy cancellation (one email, we answer our phone) on a $1000/mo subscription app. And the hoops to get into apple, and they wanted a cut, even when users create an account and engage from our plain web-app ages before trying for iOS app. It took almost a year to get approved with Mostly our terms, apple forced a bunch of changes - which frustrated our users (who just went…

Yes, I'm sorry the millions of developers with their $3.99/mo apps ruined the experience for your unicorn $1,000/mo app. I'm sure your users, with such a high need that they would pay so much, are perfectly able to find a workaround.

Re: Apple buying Google ads for high-value subscription apps

#200

Post by iscrewyou »

madeofpalk wrote: post #164
asimilator wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Apple doesn’t allow subscriptions priced at less than $0.99. Why not? What if I had a product that i wanted to sell for $0.50 a month? I’d pay $0.50 more. I just had the unpleasant experience of canceling a non-Apple controlled service. It sucked. Pages and pages of “are you sure you want to cancel” dark patterns. You guys did this to yourselves with absolutely shitty customer experience. Could not care less if App…

I’m all in favour, as a user, for Apple IAP subscriptions. But shouldn’t “the market” be able to send a signal that they prefer that? Shouldn’t Apple’s IAP actually be able to compete on its merits (like the better experience that we both prefer!) rather than arbitrary platform lock-in? If, faced with actual competition, users and/or developers do not chose Apple IAP, wouldn’t this signal to Apple that they need to d…

Not OP, but market does send a signal when I prefer that. That's how I signed up for Netflix and Spotify. I saw that in-app prices were high when I tried to sign up, looked elsewhere and found out that website prices are lower and now apple doesn't get my cut. But for everything else, I am happy paying apple more because I only have trust for a few companies. If apple is charging app developers more than they should be, those apps can have their own billing page and manage the billing and let the user decide how they want to pay for it.

Yes, users know how to shop around. That's how they buy cars, groceries, gas, computers, cellphones, etc.

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