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OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce

whitehouse.gov

211–220 of 1001 posts

Re: OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce

#211
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems they filled the position as recently as 7 months ago.

Right, but there was a source of knowledge (the two older employees) to obtain information from. If one of those older employees is irreplaceable, and they leave, it's going to seriously impact production systems.

These guys work at a school district. They're not working somewhere that it's going to make a huge difference to have some impact on production systems.

Honestly, I'd put my money on it being in the organizations best interests long term if the two older employees did leave them in a rut. A lot of times it's good to purge these types of places of the cruft left behind by legacy.

Re: OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce

#212
post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because it alters the risk/benefit calculus. A sterilizing vaccine that stops transmission in its tracks, has a clear public health benefit to every part of society, even if there are risks. A non-sterilizing vaccine does not provide that society-wide public health benefit, leaving the employer to bear risks without benefit.

Schools require thr polio vaccine. That one is also nonsterilizing.

Given that the polio vaccine has >99% efficacy [1] and the fact that US has been polio free since 1979 [2], with the only threat being the occasional traveler to a region with polio, being nonsterlizing doesn't seem to be an issue. Quite different from our current situation.

[1] https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd/polio/hcp/effectiveness-dur...

[2] https://www.cdc.gov/polio/what-is-polio/polio-us.html

Re: OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce

#213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What makes you think it is different in other countries?

Most EU countries reached high vaccination rate without extreme measures because people here are not poisoned with right wing propaganda.

Besides the (insane and infuriating) politicization of the vaccine, I wonder how much of the problem comes down to a fear of the US healthcare system for those who are uninsured or have catastrophic-only coverage. I worry that people fear they'll go in for a “free” shot and end up getting a $300 bill in the mail, because hidden costs abound in the US healthcare system. (Even though we know that they won't)

Re: OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce

#214

Why must I be vaccinated if the vaccine doesn't prevent spread? Preventing spread to other people is the only plausible reason to force everyone to take it. I am comfortable catching the disease and even comfortable dying from it (the numbers are vastly on my side). I do far riskier things on a regular basis (extreme sports) and I do not understand the infantilization of society. Join the feedlot if you want but I wi…

> Why must I be vaccinated if the vaccine doesn't prevent spread? (...) I am comfortable catching the disease and even comfortable dying from it Became it's not about you , it's about everyone around you as a group. Those who are "comfortable catching the disease" are taking up a non-insignificant portion of available hospital beds, for instance, keeping health workers at their limit and preventing other people from…

> are taking up a non-insignificant portion of available hospital beds

Healthy, non obese young people do not get hospitalized by this disease at any significant rate at all, most aren't even aware they got it. If you're a healthy young person you have rationality on your side to object to a vaccine. Especially one that is trying to hit a moving target as covid is probably now another mutating flu that will be around indefinitely. Especially because you still pass on the disease vaccinated or not.

Re: OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce

#215
post #185
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The world is full of “irreplaceable” people.

Better version imho - Cementaries are full of irreplaceable people.

Well. I wasn’t going to go there given the context.

Re: OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce

#216

I refuse to comply with this over reach and I’m fully vaccinated

I agree and support this. People want to conflate the issues of not believing in vaccines (or whatever words they like to put in peoples mouths) and believing in having to provide proof of a personal health situation all over the place. It's convenient to pretend that anyone who is against government and corporate overreach is an "anti-vaxxer" instead of actually engage with the issue.

They're getting conflated because the people who are against vaccines are referencing freedom to choose as their primary argument, as if the ability to make bad decisions implies some duty to make bad decisions.

I'm against vaccine mandates in principle, but the ultimate cause of the authoritarianism is mass media. Covid has been a fantastic setup for dog and pony shows - political hucksters rail all day about government overreach while inciting their followers to make bad choices. The large scale effects of those bad choices practically demand government intervention. And after the utilitarian system steps in to mitigate the problem, the hucksters take credit for being right about government overreach all along. It's the perfect con for the post-reality media environment - when reality asserts itself and some low level preacher dies of their own kool aid, they just go silent and are replaced by another ignorant voice on the same channel.

If we had a level of societal trust such that you could expect that most everyone would be taking measures to prevent spreading Covid, then coming together in large groups (eg employment) would be less of an issue. But as it stands, why would anybody want to go back into the office when it's likely that at least a third of your coworkers will blithely get you sick? And hence OSHA et al step in, using the same rationale as when preventing operating heavy equipment while drunk - it creates an unsafe work environment.

Re: OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce

#218
post #20

I reluctantly support this. I also think a bunch of companies that have many/most employees who can work from home were hoping that they could get through this without widespread mandates given that the reluctant mostly didn’t have to come into the office or customer sites.

If they can safely work from home this is clearly not an occupational safety and health issue and osha doesn't have any business getting involved. So this is either clearly an overreach or osha was just the vector biden used to exert power he didn't have on his own.

Re: OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce

#219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This reasoning also would justify mandatory colonoscopies, or requiring a 3 mile daily run, for 100 million people. Yes, that might reduce the load on the health care system long term (except the colonoscopy & PT departments ...), but historically in the U.S. that would have been viewed as a galactic overreach.

None of those are protecting against infectious diseases.

GP is likely arguing that reducing obesity reduces infectious disease, which is true at least in the case of COVID.

Re: OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or test workforce

#220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think “prevent” is too imprecise a term here. The vaccines don’t eliminate the risk of spreading the virus to others. They do materially reduce the risk of spreading the virus to others.

How much pro-social good is required to force me to take a medical treatment I do not consent to?

Non-zero. If COVID had a 100% death rate and was contagious like COVID we’d be vaccinating everyone against their will.
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