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CUDA on Windows Subsystem for Linux 2

devblogs.nvidia.com

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Re: CUDA on Windows Subsystem for Linux 2

#211

Post by Kipters »

bonzini wrote: post #59
Kipters wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Next? They're trying to upstream it

Why would it matter if it's upstream? Upstreaming something like this is not really useful to anyone but Microsoft; it is still something that is inextricably tied to Windows and WSL. The point is not "extinguishing" Linux per se, it's achieving enough lock-in that only Linux that Microsoft customers can use is WSL.

It doesn't make it less true since there's discussion going on for upstreaming it, and someone linked the lkml thread here

Re: CUDA on Windows Subsystem for Linux 2

#212

Post by Kipters »

FridgeSeal wrote: post #89
Kipters wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some of these are fixed or there's progress being made: - IMHO PowerShell is not that bad, but the newer PowerShell Core works better and with WSL you can use your favorite linux shell (and mix and match Windows and Linux binaries) - WinGet is in preview - No search results: my experience is 50/50 on that - second class citizen: I wouldn't say most, definitely for Golang - Docker now runs on WSL2 (which is still a so…

PowerShell is horrible and confusing to use. Maybe I’m just dumb, but it was confusing to learn and super unintuitive. If I’m running everything in WSL/2 why not just run Linux? I don’t remember the last time I had to use something windows specific - and word is available online for the sporadic times that needs to be used.

What I've found to be most alien to people used to bash is that Powershell is fundamentally different because of its object-passing style instead of dealing with text streams, usually once someone gets a grasp on this their experience using powershell improves significantly

About WSL, you're right: if you only use WSL it doesn't make sense to use Windows, but it's a good compromise for anyone who needs both at the same time (at least it's a better compromise than a VM)

Re: CUDA on Windows Subsystem for Linux 2

#213

Post by Kipters »

cwyers wrote: post #141
bonzini wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would it matter if it's upstream? Upstreaming something like this is not really useful to anyone but Microsoft; it is still something that is inextricably tied to Windows and WSL. The point is not "extinguishing" Linux per se, it's achieving enough lock-in that only Linux that Microsoft customers can use is WSL.

WSL is not a Linux. It is a Windows subsystem for running Linux userlands. (Almost as if the WSL name isn't totally nonsense!) The "default" is Ubuntu. But Debian is supported, OpenSUSE is supported, Kali is supported. Unsupported but available, you can get Alpine, CentOS, Fedora, Arch, lots of distros.

That was WSL1, WSL2 is a micro-vm running the Linux kernel and whatever userland you want. Ubuntu is just the most advertised one, but all are equally unsupported by MSFT, support is provided by the distro "vendor"

Re: CUDA on Windows Subsystem for Linux 2

#214

Post by int_19h »

pjmlp wrote: post #179
patrec wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I personally don't get why any developer would prefer Windows over Linux Because windows now literally has all the stuff Linux has plus a lot more. The only reason for a well paid developer to prefer linux over windows for a desktop OS is that you don't need any of the extra stuff (a decent desktop experience, hardware support and a commercial end user software eco system) or that you have some fundamental objectio…

Just a small correction, the only "developers" that find Apple's offerings hostile are those using macOS as Linux replacement instead of paying to Linux OEMs. Developers targeting Apple platforms are doing just fine.

There's a lot more devs in the first category - mostly web stack.

Re: CUDA on Windows Subsystem for Linux 2

#215

Post by int_19h »

washadjeffmad wrote: post #41
cma wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hope we don't see things like: "Google announces today that to work around Windows' file path length limitations, Tensorflow's directory structure is being rewritten to use three characters or less per directory."

I recently helped a friend with their museum's collection management software. The server and client were Windows based, and even with the proper dependencies and provisioning, the installs kept failing. Some of the paths were too long and the installer could only be executed after being unpacked to root. It's been a while since I more than casually gutted and used Windows as an app container, but I hadn't realized h…

Windows itself can deal with long paths for a long time now. The problem is the apps - they need to use newer APIs that don't e.g. deal with structs with wchar_t[MAX_PATH] fields in them. For apps written in higher-level languages, it's usually the standard library that needs to be updated - e.g. Node.js and Python already have such support. But if it's C++, then it depends on how much the app developer cares.

Re: CUDA on Windows Subsystem for Linux 2

#216

Post by int_19h »

ilyas121 wrote: post #120

Can someone explain to me the WSL acornym? Isn't WSL really a Linux subsystem for Windows? tiny pet peeve

The spiritual predecessor to WSL was something called (at different times) Windows Services for Unix, and Windows Subsystem for Unix-based Applications.

Re: CUDA on Windows Subsystem for Linux 2

#217

Post by cwyers »

Kipters wrote: post #213
cwyers wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

WSL is not a Linux. It is a Windows subsystem for running Linux userlands. (Almost as if the WSL name isn't totally nonsense!) The "default" is Ubuntu. But Debian is supported, OpenSUSE is supported, Kali is supported. Unsupported but available, you can get Alpine, CentOS, Fedora, Arch, lots of distros.

That was WSL1, WSL2 is a micro-vm running the Linux kernel and whatever userland you want. Ubuntu is just the most advertised one, but all are equally unsupported by MSFT, support is provided by the distro "vendor"

By "supported" I mean "available in the Windows Store." I believe that those are submitted by the distro vendors themselves.

And from a lock-in perspective, the userland is all that matters, yeah? If an app runs on Ubuntu, whether it's WSL 2 or in Docker or in a a VM or on bare metal. If it's all the same, then it's not a Microsoft Linux, it's just Ubuntu. Or whatever Linux you want.

Re: CUDA on Windows Subsystem for Linux 2

#218

Post by bonzini »

cwyers wrote: post #217
Kipters wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That was WSL1, WSL2 is a micro-vm running the Linux kernel and whatever userland you want. Ubuntu is just the most advertised one, but all are equally unsupported by MSFT, support is provided by the distro "vendor"

By "supported" I mean "available in the Windows Store." I believe that those are submitted by the distro vendors themselves. And from a lock-in perspective, the userland is all that matters, yeah? If an app runs on Ubuntu, whether it's WSL 2 or in Docker or in a a VM or on bare metal. If it's all the same, then it's not a Microsoft Linux, it's just Ubuntu. Or whatever Linux you want.

If it has to run on Hyper-V, then as far as Microsoft cares it's a Microsoft-extended Linux that they can make money from.

Re: CUDA on Windows Subsystem for Linux 2

#219

Post by fomine3 »

read_if_gay_ wrote: post #192
jentist_retol wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Last time I tried it, I installed Ubuntu 18.04LTS, updated, installed the recommended graphics driver, and then the machine would not boot after that. I recently tried 20.04LTS on a laptop, with an external GPU over tb3 - it works! However, I really struggled to rectify the display density of my external 4k with the laptop's built in 1080p. I had other show stopper bugs, besides bad scaling, however. :( What you're m…

> What you're missing is the ability to open a game for a quick session while keeping your work open in the background. Absolutely possible with Wine or QEMU. > What you're missing is that desktop linux is famously unpolished, and worse, brittle Correct, but arguably also true for Windows. There’s no Linux distro that has had two settings panels for years. IMO the only polished OS is macOS.

IMO Linux desktop needs more than one settings panels. I always need to edit by gconf-editor or editing /etc/, ~/.local/ .

Re: CUDA on Windows Subsystem for Linux 2

#220

Post by kyberias »

jen20 wrote: post #74
kyberias wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you be more specific? What exactly is horrible on Windows when you've tried coding?

I tried Windows 10 Pro and Windows 2019 Server about 2 months ago on a self-built computer (my first in ~15 years). What I found was: - driver support was atrocious for Windows server, and also for Windows 10. Almost every component from a fairly standard Ryzen build installed some form of custom skinned crapware to get basic functionality - spyware and advertising was everywhere. - the UI is a mess of old and new. I…

> These are not specific to coding

Ok, so it was not about coding after all.

I haven't seen any ads or spyware when I use Windows 10. Maybe I just don't install them.

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