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U.S. Surgeon General’s Advisory: Marijuana Use and the Developing Brain

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Re: U.S. Surgeon General’s Advisory: Marijuana Use and the Developing Brain

#211

Post by sterileopinions »

mdorazio wrote: post #172
apl002 wrote: post #166

Ive smoked for about 15 years now. Started heavy through highschool and college and after college usually just a rip before bedtime. I cant say I've experienced anything negative. No issues focusing or memory problems, or dealing with stress/anxiety. I've quit for months at a time cold turkey with no issues. I'll probably never fully quit but I am doing it less just cause I worry about the effects on my lungs more th…

Anecdote like this is bad for two reasons: 1) How do you know you wouldn't have done better had you not smoked starting in high school? You can't go back in time and A/B test yourself 2) Your personal physiology may be fine with marijuana use, but that's not a guarantee that the same applies to everyone else. I'm sure plenty of HN readers (myself included) knew people in high school who did suffer from marijuana-rela…

>but that's not a guarantee that the same applies to everyone else

It's a pretty well supported statement though. This comment is better applied elsewhere in the thread however.

Re: U.S. Surgeon General’s Advisory: Marijuana Use and the Developing Brain

#212

Post by qes »

ksaj wrote: post #193
meiraleal wrote: post #188

I smoke heavily for 10 years and if I could say something about the cognitive changes, it was for better. I learnt two foreign languages, more programming languages that I can count with one hand and got out of depression by means of self-awareness and meditation after a joint. Weed+Youtube surely is harmful, but so it is only Youtube (with less fun).

You didn't say anything about your age, which would be important given that the article is about the developing brain. It's already pretty understood that the negative impact is significantly less in the adult brain. The majority of people I went to HS with that were potheads are in exactly the types of jobs and whatnot that the Surgeon General suggests is most likely. Of course there are a lot of outliers. Nobody sa…

I'm 38 and started smoking daily when I was 13. There's been some periods of break in my life, but mostly I've been a daily smoker for 25 years.

I'm the lead developer at my company, who I've been with for 10 years. In my late teenage years I ran my small own software company for a couple years and then a small custom pc builder company for a couple years. I've done manual labor at times. I built furniture for a while.

I'm a bit of a homebody, and feel lazy at times, but thinking also of the list of personal hobbies and projects I've done in the last 20 years, I can't really say I'm very lazy at all.

I'm also an active father, and polyamorous and in two long-term relationships.

Re: U.S. Surgeon General’s Advisory: Marijuana Use and the Developing Brain

#213

Post by house9-2 »

aritmo wrote: post #14
40acres wrote: post #3

My brother smoked heavily during his teens and as a result developed schizophrenia / substance induced psychosis. It was generally terrifying to see him unable to complete thoughts and lose his train of thought. He's fine now but I definitely wouldn't be surprised if you told me those years knocked a couple of points off his IQ. I'm for decriminalization and legalization but at the core we need funding for long term…

Cannabis is meant for adults only. When the brain is developed in the teens, cannabis use may affect the development. Just like with alcohol.

I smoked weed from the age of 14 to 24; also dropped LSD about 100 times between 14 and 19 years of age.

I'm in my late 40's now and totally normal. I think I smoked weed like 3 times in the last 20 years and it is not my thing anymore.

Smoking weed was definitely more fun in my youth. Did it affect my brain development? maybe

Re: U.S. Surgeon General’s Advisory: Marijuana Use and the Developing Brain

#214

Post by DenisM »

newsreview1 wrote: post #125
nenadg wrote: post #45

I smoked weed heavily from my ~16 to ~18. And I stopped because it was so overwhelming experience that I could not stand any more. I couldn't function normally and had really tough trips, thinking about so many end results in the same time. Minutes took hours and basically it was an agony, while everybody had pretty joyful time laughing. Now, I'm 38. I'm functional (so far), I have family with kids. I haven't develop…

I appreciate this honest statement. I work daily with individuals with mental disabilities including psychosis, memory dysfunction, and perceptional disturbances, and can certainly agree from what I have subjectively seen. (Though also longitudinally as I have viewed medical records extensively over years and years of research). I have witnessed secondhand that higher doses and earlier use of THC are more likely to p…

Have you considered that there might be a huge population of people out there who smoked weed and did not develop any problems, thus never coming into your orbit?

And your observation could be easily explained in reverse: "I have witnessed secondhand that people who were susceptible to anxiety, agitation, paranoia, and psychosis due to {trauma|genetics|isolation|etc} and other misfortunes in life were also likely to start consuming higher doses of THC earlier in life, and employ other unhealthy ways to numb their mental anguish".

See my reading of the same facts is just as valid as yours, hence neither can claim to be true.

Re: U.S. Surgeon General’s Advisory: Marijuana Use and the Developing Brain

#215

Post by lawnchair_larry »

ksaj wrote: post #193
meiraleal wrote: post #188

I smoke heavily for 10 years and if I could say something about the cognitive changes, it was for better. I learnt two foreign languages, more programming languages that I can count with one hand and got out of depression by means of self-awareness and meditation after a joint. Weed+Youtube surely is harmful, but so it is only Youtube (with less fun).

You didn't say anything about your age, which would be important given that the article is about the developing brain. It's already pretty understood that the negative impact is significantly less in the adult brain. The majority of people I went to HS with that were potheads are in exactly the types of jobs and whatnot that the Surgeon General suggests is most likely. Of course there are a lot of outliers. Nobody sa…

Correlation, not causation

Re: U.S. Surgeon General’s Advisory: Marijuana Use and the Developing Brain

#216

Post by xena »

serf wrote: post #155
nenadg wrote: post #45

I smoked weed heavily from my ~16 to ~18. And I stopped because it was so overwhelming experience that I could not stand any more. I couldn't function normally and had really tough trips, thinking about so many end results in the same time. Minutes took hours and basically it was an agony, while everybody had pretty joyful time laughing. Now, I'm 38. I'm functional (so far), I have family with kids. I haven't develop…

>I couldn't function normally and had really tough trips, thinking about so many end results in the same time. Minutes took hours and basically it was an agony, while everybody had pretty joyful time laughing. Curiosity : Why did you continue for two years with such poor experiences?

Cannabis addiction is a bitch. It also is really tough to get off of. If you use too much too often, you can get crazy sweats, horrifying nightmares (that are more real than being awake), irritability and headaches that make you want to relapse.

The worst part about cannabis addiction is it's mostly psychological.

Re: U.S. Surgeon General’s Advisory: Marijuana Use and the Developing Brain

#217

Post by sitkack »

appleshore wrote: post #149
newsreview1 wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I appreciate this honest statement. I work daily with individuals with mental disabilities including psychosis, memory dysfunction, and perceptional disturbances, and can certainly agree from what I have subjectively seen. (Though also longitudinally as I have viewed medical records extensively over years and years of research). I have witnessed secondhand that higher doses and earlier use of THC are more likely to p…

Society itself seems like a driver of psychosis. In school, they rarely teach critical thinking nor warnings of cognitive biases. People then grow up in a rather unfair world and system. Next they get easily persuaded by a clever YouTube video or concept. Now their anger has a revelation and a fascination.

And marijuana itself can be a kind of very intense red-pill. If a mind isn't prepared, having that kind of sudden experience can be very jarring.

Re: U.S. Surgeon General’s Advisory: Marijuana Use and the Developing Brain

#218

Post by donw »

sharadov wrote: post #184
graphememes wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being in the bay area, I have witnessed what you expressed happen to many engineers since the legalization. They burn out quickly as well. They swear it's not weed since everyone else tells them that's all tinfoil hat stuff. It's very unfortunate.

That's profoundly sad. But I don't blame the drug, people need to figure out boundaries.

That requires clear and honest guidance as to where those boundaries might lie, though.

Broadly speaking, I am pro-legalization of Pretty Much Everything, on the basis that proper education and appropriate treatment programs for heroin users are better for society than jail time.

But that comes with the need to implement pragmatic, evidence-based policies for how we approach drug use as a society.

A lot of neural development happens before your mid-20s, with a very large chunk happening during your adolescent years. Recreational drug use before your mid-20s, which includes alcohol and nicotine, really has a massive impact on your entire life.

I would argue that "soft" drugs, like low-percentage alcohol (beer and wine), maybe cocoa tea (not purified cocaine), and possibly low-percentage CBD should be relatively safe for adolescents from sixteen onwards.

Medical professionals, feel free to chime in if I'm wrong here. :)

Hard alcohol, nicotine, cocaine, and such, on the other hand, should have some access barrier for those under the age of twenty-five (90th percentile for complete neural development).

I wouldn't advocate an outright ban or criminalization -- if a teenager wants some weed and vodka, they're going to get it -- but putting some barriers in place to discourage consumption for the under-aged would be wise.

All of this, of course, needs to be coupled with comprehensive education.

The abstinence-only approach of "Just Say No" doesn't equip kids to really understand the full impact of the drugs they choose to use, and because of that, there's a lot of misinformation out there, ranging from "weed will make you crazy" to "it's completely safe for kids".

Neither of those things is true, and if we want to empower people to make good decisions, we must first be honest with them about the impact and trade-offs of the options on the table.

Re: U.S. Surgeon General’s Advisory: Marijuana Use and the Developing Brain

#219

Post by chris_wot »

DenisM wrote: post #214
newsreview1 wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I appreciate this honest statement. I work daily with individuals with mental disabilities including psychosis, memory dysfunction, and perceptional disturbances, and can certainly agree from what I have subjectively seen. (Though also longitudinally as I have viewed medical records extensively over years and years of research). I have witnessed secondhand that higher doses and earlier use of THC are more likely to p…

Have you considered that there might be a huge population of people out there who smoked weed and did not develop any problems, thus never coming into your orbit? And your observation could be easily explained in reverse: "I have witnessed secondhand that people who were susceptible to anxiety, agitation, paranoia, and psychosis due to {trauma|genetics|isolation|etc} and other misfortunes in life were also likely to…

That’s some faulty logic. Either your reading of the facts is valid or his reading of the facts is valid, but given they are facts it is not necessarily the case that neither of you is valid.

Note that I’m not saying you are wrong, nor am I saying he is wrong - but I am pointing out that your conclusion that neither of you can claim any truth is an unsound argument.

Furthermore, you also cannot conclude that a huge population of people who took marijuana with high THC content do not have a significant percentage of people who experienced adverse health effects from their drug-taking. To know that you would also need to have done an extensive study to conclude anything.

Now it may be you have done such a thing (or have read such a study) but without presenting such a study (or group of studies) then it’s also speculation.

Re: U.S. Surgeon General’s Advisory: Marijuana Use and the Developing Brain

#220

Post by lawnchair_larry »

AnthonBerg wrote: post #196
buttcoinslol wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I personally think it's the latter. There are estimates that 60-90% of schizophrenics smoke cigarettes, which is 2-3x the normal smoking rate. I think schizophrenics are more likely to smoke marijuana around the time the disease begins to manifest. It's a lot easier to look at your child/brother/uncle/whatever and say "weed did this to him, it's all weed's fault" vs "the disease presented concurrent with a time perio…

Cannabis gives me manic and schizophrenic symptoms. I feel emotions I don’t have names for. I don’t get these symptoms without. This is a strong psychedelic with a very long binding time deep inside our neurobiology.

If you only have those symptoms while under the influence, this doesn’t really mean anything.
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