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U.S. Surgeon General’s Advisory: Marijuana Use and the Developing Brain

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Re: U.S. Surgeon General’s Advisory: Marijuana Use and the Developing Brain

#141

Post by bigfudge »

rosser wrote: post #18
hartator wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. I am all for legalization but it’s not a safe drug. Induced schizophrenia by weed can be a thing if you carry a specific gene.

The association between cannabis and schizophrenia remains, as far as I'm aware, primarily statistical, and other factors like familial history are significantly more predictive. EDIT: That is, I don't think we have sufficient understanding to say whether pot abuse causes schizophrenia, or schizophrenics are more likely to abuse pot. Given what I know of how awful a ride that is, self-medicating that devolves into ab…

> I don't think we have sufficient understanding

This is correct. But we do have sufficient statistical evidence to rule out _large_ negative effects. We do know that cannabis is very unlikely to be as harmful to physcal and mental health as alcohol.

Re: U.S. Surgeon General’s Advisory: Marijuana Use and the Developing Brain

#142

Post by romansul »

DoofusOfDeath wrote: post #123
djsumdog wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In ever US state where it is legal (Washington, Oregon, California, Colorado, Alaska, Mass., and 2020 Illinois and Michigan) I think the minimum age is 21. Sure people underage can get it, but there is an attempt being made to limit it to people at least 21. I knew parents who let their teenagers know they used it, but also told them they didn't want their kids using it until they were at least 18 (but if they wanted…

> In ever US state where it is legal I'm assuming you know that marijuana remains illegal due to (a) federal law and (b) the Constitution's Supremacy Clause. I mean this with complete sincerity and genuine curiosity: Why did you choose wording that suggests the activity is wholly legal in those states?

Unless the federal government wants to get into a serious fight over state’s rights, weed is effectively/wholly legal in states like California (I don’t know the specific laws outside of CA)

If you’d like to argue that the federal government - through the supremacy clause - has the power to override States that legalize marijuana, perhaps you’re right in theory.

But I think it’s a fantasy that the federal government will want to die on that hill. There are politically valuable reasons to avoid addressing the tension between state’s rights and the federal government’s power.

Re: U.S. Surgeon General’s Advisory: Marijuana Use and the Developing Brain

#143

Post by bigfudge »

wyclif wrote: post #130
nostrademons wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a division of the NIH and the article cites a peer-reviewed paper in Biological Psychiatry , so yes, I do think that this is a reliable source of unbiased information. The original study carefully describes its methodology (which is as sound as any neuroscience paper I've read), and was done in London, so you can't argue that the researchers are biased by American government attitudes toward drugs: http://www.my…

Every country, city, and government has a bias and an attitude toward drugs, including London. I hope you're not suggesting (perhaps you improperly worded your comment) that the US government is biased toward drugs but English government is not biased at all and is completely neutral scientifically. If that's what you meant, I think it's specious.

The UK govt has a strong track record of ignoring scientifically literate advice on drug risks

Re: U.S. Surgeon General’s Advisory: Marijuana Use and the Developing Brain

#144

Post by umvi »

693471 wrote: post #114
umvi wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can we stop with the downplaying when it comes to drugs? Drugs should be guilty until proven innocent. Comments like these attempt to make them innocent until proven guilty. History has shown that there are very few "safe" recreational drugs. This attitude is one of the reasons it was so hard for public opinion to change on tobacco usage. "My mom died of cancer from smoking tobacco" "Sorry about your mom, but I want…

Meanwhile we all keep ignoring that the booze industry has worked tirelessly to make sure we use the phrase "drugs and alcohol" so alcohol isn't recognized as a drug by most of the population

Is the booze industry doing that? Or do people do that as a form of rationalization to convince themselves that they aren't regular drug users?

Re: U.S. Surgeon General’s Advisory: Marijuana Use and the Developing Brain

#145

Post by buttcoinslol »

bregma wrote: post #34
40acres wrote: post #3

My brother smoked heavily during his teens and as a result developed schizophrenia / substance induced psychosis. It was generally terrifying to see him unable to complete thoughts and lose his train of thought. He's fine now but I definitely wouldn't be surprised if you told me those years knocked a couple of points off his IQ. I'm for decriminalization and legalization but at the core we need funding for long term…

Unfortunately the fallacy of correlation-is-causation muddies the water here. Does self-medication cause incipient psychoses to fully manifest, or do those with incipient psychoses resort to self-medication in early stages in seeking to treat their symptoms? Fortunately, it's still illegal to even study these things in America so we can comfortably resort to what we have faith in without the scourge of proof. This go…

I personally think it's the latter.

There are estimates that 60-90% of schizophrenics smoke cigarettes, which is 2-3x the normal smoking rate. I think schizophrenics are more likely to smoke marijuana around the time the disease begins to manifest. It's a lot easier to look at your child/brother/uncle/whatever and say "weed did this to him, it's all weed's fault" vs "the disease presented concurrent with a time period where person used cannabis".

I'm not even slightly convinced that weed induced schizophrenia is real.

Re: U.S. Surgeon General’s Advisory: Marijuana Use and the Developing Brain

#146

Post by pthomas551 »

t0mbstone wrote: post #10
40acres wrote: post #3

My brother smoked heavily during his teens and as a result developed schizophrenia / substance induced psychosis. It was generally terrifying to see him unable to complete thoughts and lose his train of thought. He's fine now but I definitely wouldn't be surprised if you told me those years knocked a couple of points off his IQ. I'm for decriminalization and legalization but at the core we need funding for long term…

How much of that was due to smoking pesticides on the product, and how much of it (if any) was due to the product itself? Until we have proper studies on this (which is hard, because of the current federal drug classification), it is impossible to tell.

Yeah, illegal cannabis growers are known for using incredibly toxic pesticides. Another reason to stick with licensed dispensaries.

Re: U.S. Surgeon General’s Advisory: Marijuana Use and the Developing Brain

#147

Post by cloverich »

romansul wrote: post #142
DoofusOfDeath wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In ever US state where it is legal I'm assuming you know that marijuana remains illegal due to (a) federal law and (b) the Constitution's Supremacy Clause. I mean this with complete sincerity and genuine curiosity: Why did you choose wording that suggests the activity is wholly legal in those states?

Unless the federal government wants to get into a serious fight over state’s rights, weed is effectively/wholly legal in states like California (I don’t know the specific laws outside of CA) If you’d like to argue that the federal government - through the supremacy clause - has the power to override States that legalize marijuana, perhaps you’re right in theory. But I think it’s a fantasy that the federal government…

It is a kind of ironic situation. Modern states rights arguments tend to reside on the right, but that is also where anti-drug legalization sentiment resides as well. I'd be very interested to hear a debate where a right winger insists the fed should step in, and a left winger replies "Personally I support states rights". Just to see where it all goes.

Re: U.S. Surgeon General’s Advisory: Marijuana Use and the Developing Brain

#148

Post by bigfudge »

AngryData wrote: post #106
40acres wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't say what truly caused it or what factor cannabis played, all I know is that the diagnosis was 'substance induced psychosis' and 'schizophrenia' -- the doctors were pretty stumped and that leads to my point that a lot more research is needed.

A number of studies ive read seem to point towards marijuana and hallucinogens as merely aggravating symptoms of mental disorders that were already present, but hadn't yet easily or fully expressed themselves. Things like bi-polar, schizophrenia, and other disorders are commonly known to grow in intensity going into adulthood, so even if the first time a breakdown or episode happens is actually triggered by something…

My experience is that many of the negative side effects of recreational drugs come from the culture in which they are taken, and the habits associated with them.

Taking ecstacy, for example, often involves staying up all night and dancing. I also feel terrible if I deprive myself of sleep without taking drugs, but I tend not to do that so often. So are the drugs dangerous, or are we just failing to construct heathy social norms around them?

Re: U.S. Surgeon General’s Advisory: Marijuana Use and the Developing Brain

#149

Post by appleshore »

newsreview1 wrote: post #125
nenadg wrote: post #45

I smoked weed heavily from my ~16 to ~18. And I stopped because it was so overwhelming experience that I could not stand any more. I couldn't function normally and had really tough trips, thinking about so many end results in the same time. Minutes took hours and basically it was an agony, while everybody had pretty joyful time laughing. Now, I'm 38. I'm functional (so far), I have family with kids. I haven't develop…

I appreciate this honest statement. I work daily with individuals with mental disabilities including psychosis, memory dysfunction, and perceptional disturbances, and can certainly agree from what I have subjectively seen. (Though also longitudinally as I have viewed medical records extensively over years and years of research). I have witnessed secondhand that higher doses and earlier use of THC are more likely to p…

Society itself seems like a driver of psychosis. In school, they rarely teach critical thinking nor warnings of cognitive biases. People then grow up in a rather unfair world and system. Next they get easily persuaded by a clever YouTube video or concept. Now their anger has a revelation and a fascination.

Re: U.S. Surgeon General’s Advisory: Marijuana Use and the Developing Brain

#150

Post by telaelit »

When I was 16 I started smoking weed almost everyday until I was 20, I took a break until I was 22, and now I live in a legal state and I enjoy a joint or two on the weekends. I haven't had any problems whatsoever. I work as a software engineer and I got all As throughout school.

I realize this might not be the case for everyone, but that has been my experience.

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