Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Netflix is the latest company to try bypassing Apple’s app store

marketwatch.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

211–220 of 482 posts

Re: Netflix is the latest company to try bypassing Apple’s app store

#211

Post by fireattack »

jefe_ wrote: post #188

Accidentally subscribed to Youtube Red / Premium through the App Store. Got an e-mail a few months ago when Youtube shifted to Premium congratulating me that I was grandfathered into the old rate and features forever. I noticed their new rate of $11.99 seemed similar to what I was already paying. This is when I discovered Google had included a $3 surcharge to cover App store fees in the App store price (don't blame t…

Most grandfathered plan will be deliberately hard to be transferred or modified ever so slightly.

The goal is, obviously, making you giving up your grandfathering. It doesn't surprise me.

Re: Netflix is the latest company to try bypassing Apple’s app store

#212

Post by wvenable »

eunoia wrote: post #205
wvenable wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are two problems with this: Both these types of users can't co-exist on the same device type or ecosystem. Grandma might not invent the next internet on an iPad but your kid is also never going to get that opportunity. And secondly, since you can't install the next internet on the iPad, Grandma is never going to get to use it.

> Both these types of users can't co-exist on the same device type or ecosystem. That's my point though. One size fits all doesn't work all that well in practice. As a technologist you seem to prefer the freedom of general compute. As a fellow technologist, I agree. We are a minority though. The vast majority of people don't seem to want much more from their devices than a working browser. (and maybe Instagram). To t…

I think we agree... I highly recommend iPhones and iPads to non-technical friends and family members for that exact reason. They are essentially foolproof.

But I really don't like the fact that they are fully gated devices. Apple has already keep useful, but competitive-to-them, applications off their platform. They've force developers to eliminate user-beneficial changes to their applications. This is not good even for non-technical users but it's much more difficult to quantify.

One real example is that all users would benefit from alternative competitive web browsers on iOS but they can't have it.

Re: Netflix is the latest company to try bypassing Apple’s app store

#213

Post by wvenable »

shuntress wrote: post #204
wvenable wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are two problems with this: Both these types of users can't co-exist on the same device type or ecosystem. Grandma might not invent the next internet on an iPad but your kid is also never going to get that opportunity. And secondly, since you can't install the next internet on the iPad, Grandma is never going to get to use it.

>Both these types of users can't co-exist on the same device type or ecosystem. This is false. An eco system can easily contain a locked down channel for installing programs as well as an open channel to side-load.

The context here is that we're discussing fully locked down platforms.

Re: Netflix is the latest company to try bypassing Apple’s app store

#214

Post by madrox »

I worked on an app that is in the same category as Netflix. A week before launch, Apple chose to reject us in spite of months of meetings and reviews with their app teams and assurances we were in-bounds since we were working with them for launch featuring.

It came down to the fact we required an email address and password for IAP so you could bring your subscription to the web or other platforms. While everyone else in the category did this, they decided that policy was going to change and we were just going to be the first people to deal with it. Since having an email-based account was core to the architecture and the UX, I went through a week of refactor hell to make emails/passwords optional to meet our launch date.

Since other apps still get to do this, it's clear the policy change message was BS. I've suspected a lot has had to do with Apple's ambitions in the streaming space and their desire to be in a position to offer bundling and other over the top services. They're already trying to control the UX with the TV app and are offering companies better rev share rates to do the integration work.

It seems like Netflix is daring Apple to pull them from the store. If that's what's happening then I applaud them. I understand that Apple may think they're protecting the consumer by creating a walled garden, but as a developer whose livelihood is tied to their decisions, I'm tired of being jerked around.

Re: Netflix is the latest company to try bypassing Apple’s app store

#216

Post by dunpeal »

wvenable wrote: post #159
NeedMoreTea wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For the non-technical majority they are a huge advantage. We're never going to have average users fully technically aware. I well remember the state of Windows during Win 98 and XP where most had no idea what they were downloading, and it seemed every machine had malware, hidden pop ups and 37 IE toolbars. I was constantly asked to clean up friend's machines from the damage done by Kazaa and its associated garbage or…

Imagine of Microsoft had a similar store to Apple in 1995 with the same restrictions on downloading and executing external code. The web itself could have been killed in the cradle on day one. The fact that you are here typing this reply right now is entirely because of the state of Windows during 98 and XP. It's a balance between security and freedom. You are arguing for the benefit of security while ignoring the ef…

> The web itself could have been killed in the cradle on day one.

The web is such a killer app, that if MS blocked it, it would be a problem for MS, not the web, imho.

Also IANAL, but given that MS launched a competing service - The Microsoft Network - this seems like a huge anti-trust issue.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MSN_Dial-up

The combination of consumer demand for web access + anti-trust would probably crush MS, and it would have to provide access.

Another factor is that Windows was always a target for hackers, so it's virtually certain there'd be some jailbreaking solution that everyone would use if MS started blocking access to killer apps like web access.

MS was a near monopoly, but there were enough exceptions that people were aware how amazing the web is.

Finally, if MS took the Walled Garden approach, it's easy to argue it wouldn't be the monopoly it was. MS benefited immensely from its platform being "free" (as in pirated) and "open" (as in hackable and insecure).

There was a company who took the other approach. Its name is Apple and it wasn't doing too well against MS in 1995.

Re: Netflix is the latest company to try bypassing Apple’s app store

#217

Post by tolmasky »

donarb wrote: post #197
tolmasky wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would absolutely care if a new price materialized out of thin air that then got passed off to me. 30% is a lot. I posit that if a new 30% penalty was instilled tomorrow in just about every piece of software you interacted with, you would both notice and care. I also care when the 30% applies solely by proxy through me. That is to say, since Apple doesn't allow you to differentiate pricing on the Store (IOW, charge…

What new price? Apple's 30% has been in place since the App Store opened. Outside of the HN bubble, users have no idea what Apple charges developers, nor do they care. If a customer wants an app, they check the price and determine if they want to pay it or not, just as business is conducted every day all around the world. If a developer is losing money building apps (most cut their own throat with $.99 apps), they ne…

Well, the point of the comment was the demonstrate that a 30% revenue cut is rather onerous through the thought experiment of what would happen if an additional one was placed.

That being said, existing services absolutely went through this sort of increase when customers wanting to use a service with a known pricing model, interacted with the service on this new platform: services that wanted to put their business on the App Store DID have to either add an additional 30% increase across the board, or (as mentioned in the end of the comment), treat App Store-acquired customers as 30%-less revenue generating. Again, from the customer's perspective, which I have repeatedly tried to convey, this is confusing and opaque. Notice that in none of my above comments do I ever lament app developers, and thus do not need a business 101 explanation. I am lamenting that Apple, through a combination of not just placing a large 30% cut, but additionally not giving developers the flexibility to either increase the price of the product by 30% on said platform, created an opaque situation where the customers appears as a lower-revenue generating customer to a business.

This was not imagined, it was discussed quite a bit in the space (especially when the MAC App Store appeared), where EXISTING apps, pre App Store, found themselves in the very unfortunate situation where they hoped people found the app not through the App Store.

Re: Netflix is the latest company to try bypassing Apple’s app store

#218

Post by nickjj »

ivl wrote: post #91
nickjj wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Just try running a business when you loose 30% strait off the top line. What's your take on taxes? Most business owners lose a lot more than 30% straight off the top from governments with no way to opt out (other than not to work at all which isn't really feasible in most countries if you want to enjoy your life).

No, with taxes they lose (typically sub) 30 % off the top of profit , not revenue. This is 30 % off the top on revenue.

> No, with taxes they lose (typically sub) 30 % off the top of profit, not revenue. This is 30 % off the top on revenue.

Getting dinged on revenue is pretty common for things like that.

Stripe takes 2.9% + 30c of your revenue, and PayPal is similar. Udemy also takes 50% of your revenue (a marketplace for courses, but less lock-in than the app store).

There's really no reasonable way for payment gateways, the app store or any online marketplace to take a cut from your profits.

My comparison of the app store and taxes was more on the line of it being a non-negotiable set up where you have no options other than to pay, or be unemployed (not paying taxes) or not selling your app (avoiding the app store's rates).

Re: Netflix is the latest company to try bypassing Apple’s app store

#220

Post by badwolf »

ChrisClark wrote: post #210
bluedino wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imagine if AOL had created 'apps' you could run, only while connected to AOL? I mean they had games and things like being able to buy airline tickets, and chat rooms, but imagine if there were 3rd party access.

They did, they had 'sites' that were just AOL pages existing inside their own framework. They only added the broader internet access later. Same with CompuServe, all similar services like those had proprietary pages like a massive worldwide BBS system. You could not see AOL pages from CompuServe and vice versa.

"Just search for AOL Keyword %n"
Post reply on HN