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Netflix is the latest company to try bypassing Apple’s app store

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Re: Netflix is the latest company to try bypassing Apple’s app store

#201

Post by tommymachine »

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #178
tommymachine wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But to negotiate that, you have to be able to threaten them with leaving. And there's no other way to get iPhone users, who are by far the biggest spenders. And if you're going to go this route of web-only transactions, you're going to have some user drop-off and missed sales, it's just a question of how much. Like, where does it make sense to switch. If its 30% drop off it doesn't matter either way. If its 15% or 5%…

It would be interesting if Netflix decided to straight up call Apple's bluff on their revenue restriction. Would Apple risk losing Netflix on the iPhone to enforce their rule about web signup links? Netflix is a ubiquitous expectation, and if it got delisted, Google and Samsung would have a field day talking about how you had to get an Android to get Netflix.

The answer is yes. They already fought with Spotify over this. Spotify had to clean up their game quite a bit to pass App Store review. Apple still has plenty of leverage. Being the highest grossing app on the platform is a double edged sword - and Netflix needs to be on iOS even more than Apple needs them to. But it's very unlikely that Apple would go so far as to delist Netflix. Apple will just reject the new updates until Netflix submits a version that plays by the rules. If Apple delisted an approved (live) version of any app based on something extra that turned up during review of a newer update, and the change wasn't in the live version, that would be unprecedented as far as I know, and likely an error that would be corrected promptly. And the Netflix user base is so big, there's almost no way that error would be allowed to happen.

Re: Netflix is the latest company to try bypassing Apple’s app store

#202

Post by inawarminister »

ryneandal wrote: post #82
bepotts wrote: post #10

Apple and Google not only created the device and funded the R & D for the features, but also created the APIs, the tools, the infrastructure, and attracted the (hundreds of millions of) users. The 30% cut they ask of developers is more than reasonable. Want to bypass that cut? Build a web app and make it play well on mobile. If you want to run it on Android and iOS devices, then I don't really see how anyone can say…

I think the number is too high, but a portion of proceeds to Google/Apple is certainly justified. At least Epic Games is practicing what they preach. UE4 is free to use, and here's their royalty breakdown: > UE4 is free to use, with a 5% royalty on gross product revenue after the first $3,000 per game per calendar quarter from commercial products.

And after the runaway success of Fortnite, they repaid out excess cost to developers: >The increase (of rate paid to creators), from 70 percent of the sales price to a new 88 percent pay rate, will also apply retroactively, with additional payments doled out for all sales since the Unreal Marketplace's 2014 launch.[0]

[0] https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2018/07/epic-ups-unreal-marke...

Re: Netflix is the latest company to try bypassing Apple’s app store

#203

Post by gnicholas »

chrischen wrote: post #193

The reason why Apple charges 30%—and is justifiable in doing so—is because the App store itself is a marketing platform. If a user discovers the Netflix app, signs up, they are essentially discovering Netflix through the App store. If a user discovers Netflix elsewhere, they can be pointed to download the app for extended utility. In the latter case, it doesn't violate Apple's 30% revenue cut policy. But if they want…

As another commenter pointed out, the "discovery surcharge" makes sense for a one-time purchase. It makes less sense for an ongoing subscription.

Also, does anyone actually discover Netflix through the App Store? Or do they know about Netflix, go to sign up, and the first device they sign up on happens to be running iOS?

Re: Netflix is the latest company to try bypassing Apple’s app store

#204

Post by shuntress »

wvenable wrote: post #196
eunoia wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We're never going to have average users fully technically aware. OP is establishing that there are different types of users with different usage requirements. You and Grandma are very different users. Grandma is probably much better served by an iPad and App Store than a true general computing device. Grandma is also not going to invent the next internet. Maybe we should embrace this dichotomy instead of pretending…

There are two problems with this: Both these types of users can't co-exist on the same device type or ecosystem. Grandma might not invent the next internet on an iPad but your kid is also never going to get that opportunity. And secondly, since you can't install the next internet on the iPad, Grandma is never going to get to use it.

>Both these types of users can't co-exist on the same device type or ecosystem.

This is false.

An eco system can easily contain a locked down channel for installing programs as well as an open channel to side-load.

Re: Netflix is the latest company to try bypassing Apple’s app store

#205

Post by eunoia »

wvenable wrote: post #196
eunoia wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We're never going to have average users fully technically aware. OP is establishing that there are different types of users with different usage requirements. You and Grandma are very different users. Grandma is probably much better served by an iPad and App Store than a true general computing device. Grandma is also not going to invent the next internet. Maybe we should embrace this dichotomy instead of pretending…

There are two problems with this: Both these types of users can't co-exist on the same device type or ecosystem. Grandma might not invent the next internet on an iPad but your kid is also never going to get that opportunity. And secondly, since you can't install the next internet on the iPad, Grandma is never going to get to use it.

> Both these types of users can't co-exist on the same device type or ecosystem.

That's my point though. One size fits all doesn't work all that well in practice. As a technologist you seem to prefer the freedom of general compute. As a fellow technologist, I agree. We are a minority though. The vast majority of people don't seem to want much more from their devices than a working browser. (and maybe Instagram). To them things like root access are more a liability than asset.

> Grandma might not invent the next internet on an iPad but your kid is also never going to get that opportunity.

This is a real concern to me. What happens when whole generations view computers as black boxes of consumption rather than tools of creation / something to tinker with? Probably nothing good.

Re: Netflix is the latest company to try bypassing Apple’s app store

#206

Post by s73v3r_ »

Aunche wrote: post #180
shady-lady wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't quite get the last sentence. > who could look at how Europe treats Android and come to the conclusion that Google made the right decision by being open? Google was fined on antitrust grounds. I don't see which direction to leap to make that sentence relevant to them being fined. From the EU’s competition commissioner > Fine of €4,34 bn to @Google for 3 types of illegal restrictions on the use of Android. In t…

Android is free, which unequivocally is a net positive for consumers and smartphone manufacturers. Google places some terms of use to their software and suddenly they're being "anti-competitive." Had they made Android a walled garden like Apple, they wouldn't have been fined.

Only if they're the only ones using Android. Regardless of how you want to complain about this, the fact of the matter is, they're abusing their monopoly to put additional restrictions on OEMs, which is a big no-no.

Re: Netflix is the latest company to try bypassing Apple’s app store

#207

Post by djsumdog »

andyfleming wrote: post #177
dperfect wrote: post #174

> They are being redirected to the mobile web version of the app and asked to enter payment details with Netflix directly. Sorry, but if Apple's policies are applied consistently (I know they often aren't), this won't fly. I have an app with a basic email/password sign-in screen (the app represents a small part of a larger web-based SaaS product). Apple has rejected my app for including anything in the app that even…

IF applied consistently. This is Netflix though. I'll be interested to see how this plays out.

The big players can dictate a lot of the rules of the game.

Re: Netflix is the latest company to try bypassing Apple’s app store

#208

Post by zaidf »

dperfect wrote: post #174

> They are being redirected to the mobile web version of the app and asked to enter payment details with Netflix directly. Sorry, but if Apple's policies are applied consistently (I know they often aren't), this won't fly. I have an app with a basic email/password sign-in screen (the app represents a small part of a larger web-based SaaS product). Apple has rejected my app for including anything in the app that even…

Amazon app already does this.

Re: Netflix is the latest company to try bypassing Apple’s app store

#209

Post by eunoia »

njarboe wrote: post #194
eunoia wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We're never going to have average users fully technically aware. OP is establishing that there are different types of users with different usage requirements. You and Grandma are very different users. Grandma is probably much better served by an iPad and App Store than a true general computing device. Grandma is also not going to invent the next internet. Maybe we should embrace this dichotomy instead of pretending…

At this point in time "Grandma" could have been involved in the creation of the internet and working on the next big thing. Maybe use the word expert or techie or something. Edit: :)

True. I just wanted a nice folksy metaphor.

Re: Netflix is the latest company to try bypassing Apple’s app store

#210

Post by ChrisClark »

bluedino wrote: post #192
wvenable wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imagine of Microsoft had a similar store to Apple in 1995 with the same restrictions on downloading and executing external code. The web itself could have been killed in the cradle on day one. The fact that you are here typing this reply right now is entirely because of the state of Windows during 98 and XP. It's a balance between security and freedom. You are arguing for the benefit of security while ignoring the ef…

Imagine if AOL had created 'apps' you could run, only while connected to AOL? I mean they had games and things like being able to buy airline tickets, and chat rooms, but imagine if there were 3rd party access.

They did, they had 'sites' that were just AOL pages existing inside their own framework. They only added the broader internet access later. Same with CompuServe, all similar services like those had proprietary pages like a massive worldwide BBS system.

You could not see AOL pages from CompuServe and vice versa.

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