Netflix is the latest company to try bypassing Apple’s app store • Hacker News Board

Re: Netflix is the latest company to try bypassing Apple’s app store

#71

Post by stcredzero » Thu, Aug 23, 2018, 7:37 PM UTC

microtonal wrote: post #24

bepotts wrote: post #10

Apple and Google not only created the device and funded the R & D for the features, but also created the APIs, the tools, the infrastructure, and attracted the (hundreds of millions of) users. The 30% cut they ask of developers is more than reasonable. Want to bypass that cut? Build a web app and make it play well on mobile. If you want to run it on Android and iOS devices, then I don't really see how anyone can say…

Apple and Google not only created the device and funded the R & D for the features, but also created the APIs, the tools, the infrastructure, and attracted the (hundreds of millions of) users. The 30% cut they ask of developers is more than reasonable. Want to bypass that cut? Build a web app and make it play well on mobile. I can understand the argument that they should accept the 30% cut to be listed in and downloa…

However, an iOS device is also the property of its owner and the owner should be allowed (morally) to install software outside the app store. Even if that comes with potential security problems.

This is supportable by well known technologies. The user could opt-in to various app-signature blacklists and whitelists. App stores and hardware vendors could publish their official app blacklists and whitelists, and even require their use for warranty purposes. On the other hand, the user could also opt-out.

Re: Netflix is the latest company to try bypassing Apple’s app store

#72

Post by Neil44 » Thu, Aug 23, 2018, 7:38 PM UTC

bepotts wrote: post #10

Apple and Google not only created the device and funded the R & D for the features, but also created the APIs, the tools, the infrastructure, and attracted the (hundreds of millions of) users. The 30% cut they ask of developers is more than reasonable. Want to bypass that cut? Build a web app and make it play well on mobile. If you want to run it on Android and iOS devices, then I don't really see how anyone can say…

This is not an indie game that needs exposure and a platform from Apple, this is Netflix and I would argue they receive little to no value from Apple.

Re: Netflix is the latest company to try bypassing Apple’s app store

#73

Post by zahrc » Thu, Aug 23, 2018, 7:38 PM UTC

bepotts wrote: post #10

Apple and Google not only created the device and funded the R & D for the features, but also created the APIs, the tools, the infrastructure, and attracted the (hundreds of millions of) users. The 30% cut they ask of developers is more than reasonable. Want to bypass that cut? Build a web app and make it play well on mobile. If you want to run it on Android and iOS devices, then I don't really see how anyone can say…

I personally find Netflix is being a little bit of a hypocrite there. Netflix is actively using the play store to identify old and unidentified devices and roms to stop them from downloading the app.

Not judging them here, just saying.

Re: Netflix is the latest company to try bypassing Apple’s app store

#74

Post by harryf » Thu, Aug 23, 2018, 7:39 PM UTC

jobu wrote: post #50

Didn't Apple change the rules about external accounts and subscriptions a couple years back? I thought you could create an app that required an external account (and external purchases) as long as there was no links to the external site from the app and no mention of subscription or external purchases within the app. Netflix, Hulu, Spotify, and a few others have been doing it this way for a while, so I'm surprised th…

Audible.com is a clear example of this. All purchases have to be made on their website. The app is just a player with the ability to browse and put content on your wish list but nothing more. It's a horrible user experience but a 30% price hike on content might make me think twice about impulse purchases

Re: Netflix is the latest company to try bypassing Apple’s app store

#75

Post by d1zzy » Thu, Aug 23, 2018, 7:39 PM UTC

autokad wrote: post #30

bepotts wrote: post #10

Apple and Google not only created the device and funded the R & D for the features, but also created the APIs, the tools, the infrastructure, and attracted the (hundreds of millions of) users. The 30% cut they ask of developers is more than reasonable. Want to bypass that cut? Build a web app and make it play well on mobile. If you want to run it on Android and iOS devices, then I don't really see how anyone can say…

> "he 30% cut they ask of developers is more than reasonable." Not really, the fee's much of big tech often puts on people are draconian, and they are able to continue doing so because of the monopolies they hold. 30% is huge. Just try running a business when you loose 30% strait off the top line. > "Want to bypass that cut?" break the monopolies. The cuts big tech muscle on their constituents actually hurts them in…

Because instead of having 2 players that ask for 30% cut, having 6 that do the same is going to make Netflix any happier. There's no reason to think other similar platforms wouldn't charge the same. Look at GOG vs Steam, both charge 30% too, even tho GOG is much smaller market and for devs it means spending resources making the GOG version in addition to the Steam version, GOG still charges as much as Steam and doesn't see a reason to lower the cut.

Re: Netflix is the latest company to try bypassing Apple’s app store

#76

Post by Redoubts » Thu, Aug 23, 2018, 7:39 PM UTC

patmcc wrote: post #23

bepotts wrote: post #10

Apple and Google not only created the device and funded the R & D for the features, but also created the APIs, the tools, the infrastructure, and attracted the (hundreds of millions of) users. The 30% cut they ask of developers is more than reasonable. Want to bypass that cut? Build a web app and make it play well on mobile. If you want to run it on Android and iOS devices, then I don't really see how anyone can say…

30% of a single app purchase might be reasonable, we can argue about that. 30% of a recurring monthly subscription (like netflix) is bonkers.

It's half that after 1 year.

Re: Netflix is the latest company to try bypassing Apple’s app store

#77

Post by TheCoelacanth » Thu, Aug 23, 2018, 7:40 PM UTC

ballenf wrote: post #48

microtonal wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple and Google not only created the device and funded the R & D for the features, but also created the APIs, the tools, the infrastructure, and attracted the (hundreds of millions of) users. The 30% cut they ask of developers is more than reasonable. Want to bypass that cut? Build a web app and make it play well on mobile. I can understand the argument that they should accept the 30% cut to be listed in and downloa…

If the whole model depends on getting the cost of the device plus a cut of everything I spend going forward, it's more like I'm renting the device than owning. It would be users demanding this, not devs, if the cost were more like a sales tax instead of VAT (added after instead of before total).

Except you're not renting. They use the word sell, so you are buying. If you want to lease something to people, you need to call it leasing and have an explicit lease agreement. You can't sell something to someone and still keep control of it.

Re: Netflix is the latest company to try bypassing Apple’s app store

#78

Post by NeedMoreTea » Thu, Aug 23, 2018, 7:40 PM UTC

peatmoss wrote: post #20

I miss the idea that a platform, applications, and marketplace were not a vertical stack owned by one entity. As a consumer, I’d love to buy a phone, not a content distribution straight jacket.

For the non-technical majority they are a huge advantage. We're never going to have average users fully technically aware.

I well remember the state of Windows during Win 98 and XP where most had no idea what they were downloading, and it seemed every machine had malware, hidden pop ups and 37 IE toolbars. I was constantly asked to clean up friend's machines from the damage done by Kazaa and its associated garbage or some other drive-by crap.

If a restrictive app store is the cost of avoiding that and gaining some minimum enforced standards, safety and confidence to avoid crapware, I've actually come to think it a price well worth paying.

The fact that Google are so laissez faire about the Android app store, and let so much crap in, just further highlights the potential benefits that Google aren't fully providing.

Re: Netflix is the latest company to try bypassing Apple’s app store

#79

Post by bepotts » Thu, Aug 23, 2018, 7:41 PM UTC

microtonal wrote: post #24

bepotts wrote: post #10

Apple and Google not only created the device and funded the R & D for the features, but also created the APIs, the tools, the infrastructure, and attracted the (hundreds of millions of) users. The 30% cut they ask of developers is more than reasonable. Want to bypass that cut? Build a web app and make it play well on mobile. If you want to run it on Android and iOS devices, then I don't really see how anyone can say…

Apple and Google not only created the device and funded the R & D for the features, but also created the APIs, the tools, the infrastructure, and attracted the (hundreds of millions of) users. The 30% cut they ask of developers is more than reasonable. Want to bypass that cut? Build a web app and make it play well on mobile. I can understand the argument that they should accept the 30% cut to be listed in and downloa…

Only on the internet does the notion of a "gatekeeper" leading to some authoritarian universe make sense.

In the real word, it isn't immoral to sell devices that don't run non-trusted binaries. If Tim Cook and Sundar Pichai could speak to every user and tell them "the reason our platform's default behavior is to not run non-trusted apps is because we don't want your device to get viruses or perform non-trusted functionality", and you told those users that it's "immoral for these companies to make those decisions for you", nine times out of ten those users would choose to have all developers go through Apple and Google instead.

Re: Netflix is the latest company to try bypassing Apple’s app store

#80

Post by nickjj » Thu, Aug 23, 2018, 7:41 PM UTC

autokad wrote: post #30

bepotts wrote: post #10

Apple and Google not only created the device and funded the R & D for the features, but also created the APIs, the tools, the infrastructure, and attracted the (hundreds of millions of) users. The 30% cut they ask of developers is more than reasonable. Want to bypass that cut? Build a web app and make it play well on mobile. If you want to run it on Android and iOS devices, then I don't really see how anyone can say…

> "he 30% cut they ask of developers is more than reasonable." Not really, the fee's much of big tech often puts on people are draconian, and they are able to continue doing so because of the monopolies they hold. 30% is huge. Just try running a business when you loose 30% strait off the top line. > "Want to bypass that cut?" break the monopolies. The cuts big tech muscle on their constituents actually hurts them in…

> Just try running a business when you loose 30% strait off the top line.

What's your take on taxes?

Most business owners lose a lot more than 30% straight off the top from governments with no way to opt out (other than not to work at all which isn't really feasible in most countries if you want to enjoy your life).