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Microsoft Employees Protest Work with ICE

nytimes.com

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Re: Microsoft Employees Protest Work with ICE

#211

Post by noobermin »

fareesh wrote: post #183
dashundchen wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are asylum seekers, including those applying at ports of entry, being separated from their children. These children are being ripped from their parents and kept in literal cages in warehouses. https://twitter.com/DemWrite/status/1008939085384126464 I don't think that is happening in your scenario.

The asylum backlog is 600,000 cases. They are not aslyum seekers, they are trying to take advantage of the backlog since under the earlier process they could just wait for their court date and disappear into the country before that. Asylum requests have gone up over 1000% because this exploit has been figured out and it is now the default method of gaining entry. 83% of the kids aren't even with their parents, they a…

I think you are over estimating the consciousness of people seeking asylum, I don't know how they could be aware of the backlog of cases.

Re: Microsoft Employees Protest Work with ICE

#212

Post by IanDrake »

ceejayoz wrote: post #131
IanDrake wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not, but sneaking into a country is different than walking into a border checkpoint or embassy to request asylum.

Not where the US Code is concerned. https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1158 > Any alien who is physically present in the United States or who arrives in the United States ( whether or not at a designated port of arrival and including an alien who is brought to the United States after having been interdicted in international or United States waters), irrespective of such alien’s status, may apply for asylum in…

You’re right of course, it’s refugee status that can be applied for at an embassy.

Which is slightly different, but none the less alternative legal means.

Re: Microsoft Employees Protest Work with ICE

#213

Post by refurb »

staticautomatic wrote: post #36
kojon99 wrote: post #14

I’m not American and I’ve always found it fascinating how a part of the American population defends the existence of illegal immigrants in American soil. It’s crazy.

It's a country founded by immigrants and for much of its history it welcomed them (with some significant caveats). The assertion that America is only for people who are already here is both radical and relatively recent. That's what's crazy.

It’s not the 1800’s. Having the same immigration policy as back then makes no sense.

Re: Microsoft Employees Protest Work with ICE

#214

Post by popularrecluse »

dmode wrote: post #190

I was lukewarm towards the rights of undocumented immigrants prior to Trump. But his actions in dehumanizing a whole class of people who are desperate for help and support as "criminals" have changed my views. As a father, the screams of children being separated from their parents is haunting. I hear the cries of my own daughter. I can't even begin to imagine her trauma if someone forcibly separated her from me. This…

Thank you for saying so. There are more of us then there are of them. Empathy and equality under the law will prevail.

This is insane, and it is a tipping point that I hope all of us who have studied history will recognize as the moment where we have to act. We are one major terrorist act away from our own Reichstag fire; this democracy is fragile.

Re: Microsoft Employees Protest Work with ICE

#215

Post by noobermin »

briantakita wrote: post #102
aoeusnth1 wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. Illegal immigrants contribute more to the economy than they get out of it.

That's true. Illegal immigrants contribute more to the human trafficking economy, the drug economy, & the sub-minimum wage work economy than they get out of it. The real beneficiaries are the oligarchs pushing the open borders agenda. Why not make their homelands better places to live instead? Why must all culture & communities be perpetually disrupted with war, economic liberalism, socialism, drugs, human traffickin…

I agree with your latter parts. For example, the Iraq war takes a lot of blame for the refugee crisis in Europe. For the second sentence, I'm not sure the first bit is true and paints large swathes of people with the worst examples of them.

Re: Microsoft Employees Protest Work with ICE

#216

Post by sanderjd »

jcims wrote: post #194
sanderjd wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

tldr: I'll be in favor of cracking down on illegal immigrants when people stop hiring them for fear of getting in trouble. This is a naive reading of the politics. Very few people are actively in favor of illegal immigration. Many people believe the cures (that is, the ones that politicians push for) are worse than the disease. My personal view is that if we really wanted to solve the problem, we would do it on the e…

What would the process look like for authenticating individuals that wish to work for your company? Or maybe more precisely, what would meet the burden of proof for any reasonable regulation around such a thing? This would just drive up the value of stolen identities and make illegal immigrants even more indentured to organized criminals that supply them with such.

Yeah, this is definitely the best counterargument on this point. I do agree that it's very difficult, but it's not like the other alternatives are easy in any way (see the current debacle as exhibit A). If I heard politicians talking about how they've tried and failed to attack this side of the question in different ways, I may be more sympathetic to the alternatives. The deafening silence on this point makes me very skeptical.

Re: Microsoft Employees Protest Work with ICE

#217

Post by TheCoelacanth »

furgooswft13 wrote: post #198
TheCoelacanth wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An asylum seeker under US law is anyone who requests asylum within a year of entry. There is no question that these people are legitimate asylum seekers. Many of them will not meet the criteria to be granted asylum, but that does mean that their requests are not legitimate.

So at what point do they become an illegal immigrant? That is an official term used by the US government. I suspect it would be very difficult to determine how long an "undocumented" has been in the country before asking asylum. Is it if they don't show up for their hearings? Is there any reason an alien immigrant would not claim asylum when caught? Please forgive my ignorance on the nuances of immigration law, I've…

I don't know if "illegal immigrant" is well-defined enough to come up with a clear rule.

Someone who is not eligible to request asylum could definitively be called an illegal immigrant. Treaties signed and ratified by the US (which have the force of law in the US) require that refugees not be punished for unauthorized entry or presence if they present themselves to the authorities and request asylum, so they would definitively not be illegal immigrants. Someone who is eligible to request asylum but hasn't yet done so would be in a bit of a grey area.

You probably haven't heard of this before because asylum seekers are a fairly small portion of immigrants. The number of asylum seekers per year only crossed 100k/year in the past year or so and prior to about 2015 was less than half of that. The total number of illegal immigrants has been close to 1 million/year at some points. This has only made it into the media because of the recent policy change to take punitive actions towards asylum seekers in direct violation of the US's treaty obligations.

Re: Microsoft Employees Protest Work with ICE

#218

Post by refurb »

noobermin wrote: post #209
refurb wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No we’re not. They are being charged with a felony in this case.

But that's actually not true...it isn't a felony to illegally enter the country the first time. It is a misdemeanor.

First time. Looks like repeated entries are being charge as a felony.

Re: Microsoft Employees Protest Work with ICE

#219

Post by refurb »

sanderjd wrote: post #178
refurb wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. Nearly every other western country has strict immigration laws that they enforce and nobody seems to mind those.

You make it sound like it's a solved problem that we're behind the curve on. This doesn't seem accurate to me; it seems like immigration is a divisive hot-button issue in most western democracies right now.

Canada is getting pissed at asylum seekers coming to Canada from the US and tightening up their requirements, sending many away. It’s not really getting the same level as attention as it’s getting in the US.

Re: Microsoft Employees Protest Work with ICE

#220

Post by noobermin »

fareesh wrote: post #108
cycrutchfield wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Applying for asylum is a crime?

It's a bit more nuanced. There are massive loopholes in the current asylum process that create a favorable outcome from anyone who tries. The current backlog is 600,000 cases. You have to wait until your case is heard to determine credible threat to life or whatever your claim is. Till then many disappear into society and are never seen again. Also 83% of kids didn't arrive at the border with their parents to begin w…

Here[0]. Prior to FY 2017, there were 46 cases. Since then, there have been...191 cases. This is out of 31K or so. The 3x of fraudulent cases increase sounds like a rounding error to me and is probably not indicative of a trend. Instead, the admin highlighting it is playing with statistics.

[0] http://www.businessinsider.com/zero-tolerance-why-trump-sepa...

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