Police Homicides in the United States • Hacker News Board

Re: Police Homicides in the United States

#211

Post by riffraff » Sat, Dec 09, 2017, 8:22 PM UTC

eeZah7Ux wrote: post #170

riffraff wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I looked at the video and I was expecting some semi-threatening move, like suddenly standing up or something. Nope, just randomly shoot the guy. This is insane. Also, how was not the behaviour "stay on the ground, and my colleague will come and handcuff you ASAP". Where the hell are _other_ cops?

> I was expecting some semi-threatening move Hold on. An unarmed person standing up an even yelling or walking towards the cop it's still clearly not a serious threat and would not justify shooting in most "first" countries! Let's not normalize the idea of "extreme self defence".

I didn't mean to imply it'd be "justified" in a legal or moral sense to shoot someone because one feels threatened.

But I can imagine being scared shitless and pulling the trigger because of a sudden perceived threat, which is why this video felt shocking to me.

I obviously don't see why the shooter thought shooting was reasonable, but I also cannot imagine why he felt so threatened to be forced to shoot.

Re: Police Homicides in the United States

#212

Post by _jx5b » Sat, Dec 09, 2017, 8:24 PM UTC

arca_vorago wrote: post #187

michaelt wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if some of the preference for violence in the American policing tradition goes back to Western films - where outlaws are wanted dead or alive, a quick draw is the main thing a lawman needs, and the climax of the film is the lawman meeting the bad man in the street, drawing first and shooting him dead.

There are so many comments worth responding to in this thread, but this one in particular raises my ire. Are you really trying to reduce policing tradition in America to western films? How about the real west, where self defense was a way of life. I don't want to be too combative but I seriously don't understand peoples inability to understand the principles of self defense as a natural human right, and yes that incl…

As a trained member of the military I would sincerely hope that you realize there's a huge continuum in self defense that doesn't automatically begin any response to a perceived or real threat by shooting at someone.

Re: Police Homicides in the United States

#213

Post by davemp » Sat, Dec 09, 2017, 9:47 PM UTC

maxerickson wrote: post #200

davemp wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is just fantasy. Sure in nice places where you likely live this may work. These areas are not where police homicides tend to happen though. Some areas of the USA are actually very dangerous. In these areas there is a much higher likelihood of suspects being harmed and dangerous. You’re basically asking other humans to implement a sound system (where false negatives mean they die) in an area with relatively high…

(where false negatives mean they die) This study finds a substantial difference in high crime areas, but still most officers never discharge their weapon in the line of duty: http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/02/08/a-closer-loo... About one-in-five officers (22%) in areas with at least six and but fewer than 10 violent crimes per 1,000 residents in 2015 have ever fired their service weapon. By contrast, about…

I’m not convinced that firing a weapon is that useful of a statistic.

Re: Police Homicides in the United States

#214

Post by yalph » Sat, Dec 09, 2017, 9:56 PM UTC

always_good wrote: post #21

One of the worst videos I've seen on the internet is the Daniel Shaver execution from last year: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M62Va6Ft2cw The Sergeant (voice in the vid) thinks he's fucking Jigsaw, and he wasn't even the guy that pulled the trigger. America is fucked.

Its one of the worst things I have seen in my life.

Re: Police Homicides in the United States

#215

Post by cies » Sat, Dec 09, 2017, 11:08 PM UTC

always_good wrote: post #21

One of the worst videos I've seen on the internet is the Daniel Shaver execution from last year: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M62Va6Ft2cw The Sergeant (voice in the vid) thinks he's fucking Jigsaw, and he wasn't even the guy that pulled the trigger. America is fucked.

UPDATE: Agent cleared of charges... (As expected)

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-42277309

Just to reiterate:

> America is fucked.

Re: Police Homicides in the United States

#216

Post by krapp » Sat, Dec 09, 2017, 11:26 PM UTC

jeffdavis wrote: post #194

krapp wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The 2nd amendment then keeps the government from having a great justification for countless "protective" measures. Don't help me when I can help myself. Can you give any examples of such measures, or evidence that the threat of violent revolution implied in the Second Amendment, versus the political power of the gun lobby and American gun culture, has ever been effective at limiting the US government or its rational…

The post to which you replied refers to self defense rather than a threat of violent revolution.

I don't see how self defense prevents the government from having a justification for any "protective" measures, but I concede I may have misinterpreted the parent.

Re: Police Homicides in the United States

#217

Post by RickJWag » Sun, Dec 10, 2017, 12:23 AM UTC

I have known many cops, correctional officers, military police, etc.

Without exception, all the ones I have known have been good, helpful people who would not harm someone intentionally. (There are obviously a few bad ones, but none that I have known.)

It's one of the hardest, scariest, least fairly compensated jobs I can think of. Thank God for cops.

Re: Police Homicides in the United States

#218

Post by tluyben2 » Sun, Dec 10, 2017, 12:48 AM UTC

TheAdamAndChe wrote: post #174

maxerickson wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It will take decades and billions of dollars to meaningfully reduce the amount of guns in the US. We should get started asap.

This would do more harm than good IMO. There is a large proportion of the population that does not want this done, and would actively fight against any attempt to remove their constitutional right to bear arms. Guns don't kill people, people kill people. I think focusing on mental health and inequality/poverty alleviation is a more viable option in our country than weapons removal.

How do you think inequality alleviation is more likely than removing the right to bear arms? The whole society is built on make or break as much as it is on owning guns. In that atmosphere the make part of this equation is conditioned to make sure they make more in the future and protect that. I feel these things are linked somewhat: the word 'fight' is used a lot. There is the seemingly constant struggle to get ahead and stay ahead. And once ahead this must be protected; with guns if need be.

Re: Police Homicides in the United States

#219

Post by gt_ » Sun, Dec 10, 2017, 1:04 AM UTC

snsr wrote: post #20

gt_ wrote: post #8

It’s understandable that Americans continue seeking measurable blame, but I think this is a complicated result of wider cultural issues, none of which can be isolated. So sad.

> but I think this is a complicated result of wider cultural issues, none of which can be isolated The lack of accountability for murders committed by police in the US is not a difficult "issue" to isolate.

I think the causes for it, particularly why we are apparently unable to adjust it are.

Re: Police Homicides in the United States

#220

Post by TheAdamAndChe » Sun, Dec 10, 2017, 2:13 AM UTC

tluyben2 wrote: post #218

TheAdamAndChe wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This would do more harm than good IMO. There is a large proportion of the population that does not want this done, and would actively fight against any attempt to remove their constitutional right to bear arms. Guns don't kill people, people kill people. I think focusing on mental health and inequality/poverty alleviation is a more viable option in our country than weapons removal.

How do you think inequality alleviation is more likely than removing the right to bear arms? The whole society is built on make or break as much as it is on owning guns. In that atmosphere the make part of this equation is conditioned to make sure they make more in the future and protect that. I feel these things are linked somewhat: the word 'fight' is used a lot. There is the seemingly constant struggle to get ahea…

> How do you think inequality alleviation is more likely than removing the right to bear arms?

Most of the people committing gun violence in the US are in poverty. They use guns and other weapons to earn money(mostly in drugs and robbery) and to gain control of their lives.

_Most_ people with guns never use them illicitly, because they are never in a position where they feel the need. I want more people in our country to never feel the need, and I feel poverty alleviation would be a fantastic way to do that.