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Police Homicides in the United States

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Re: Police Homicides in the United States

#171

Post by ekianjo »

usrusr wrote: post #44
ekianjo wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In terms of accountability I cannot think of any country where the police force is actually accountable for anything they do. Abuse of power pretty much everywhere and the police gets a blank check.

True. But most countries give their police more powers to abuse and somehow they see less of their police power abuse involving dead people. It can't be a direct reason (police certainly don't shoot to kill because they need to fulfill some imagined power abuse quota), but I suspect that the shootings are indirectly rooted in Americans expecting their police to do their jobs without ever doing more that polite chitch…

I think the book "the rise of the warrior cop" explains that how the police does their job in the US has changed and why. It gave pretty satisfying answers as to why it's become what it is now.

https://www.amazon.com/Rise-Warrior-Cop-Militarization-Ameri...

Re: Police Homicides in the United States

#172

Post by emodendroket »

ryanlol wrote: post #155
emodendroket wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What effect will that even have on them if police departments don't care?

It's definitely not much, but having the first google result for someones name point to a dossier with ideally: * Name, DoB * Some decent photos for easy identification * Footage of them murdering someone, pages like this without solid evidence don't seem like a good thing. * Collection of news articles, court documents * Contact information (social media, home address(es), phone numbers) * Employers contact informat…

> The somewhat unlikely worst case scenario is that it simply doesn't bother them at all.

People ask George Zimmerman for his autograph.

Re: Police Homicides in the United States

#173

Post by gruez »

kurthr wrote: post #118
TeMPOraL wrote: post #13

Interesting analysis. As a counterpoint to the headline that might be little fear-inducing, my first reaction when reading it was: only so little? Things must be bad. I mean: the perfect situation is when there are no homicides at all. But in a little less perfect imaginary world, in which bad people never get the chance to hurt innocents because police stops it, some bad people might still go down resisting arrest,…

Maybe it's not the actual number of shootings, but the video evidence, the militarization of policing, and the lack of even personal responsibility much less punishment for things that look like murder. Yesterday's example:Graphic video shows Daniel Shaver sobbing and begging officer for his life before 2016 shooting According to the police report, Brailsford was carrying an AR-15 rifle with the phrase “You’re F—ed”…

Btw: the police was acquitted of any wrongdoing

Re: Police Homicides in the United States

#174

Post by TheAdamAndChe »

maxerickson wrote: post #119
thisacctforreal wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mass shootings in America are not an easy problem to fix. If 0.00005% of the population decides to spend the last 20 minutes of their life going on a murder spree, there's not much you can do, at least in the context of America. Guns are prolific in the US: between 2000 and 2010, 2,000,000 AR15s alone were manufactured for domestic use. Deciding on a set of laws to control that number of firearms to end these arbitra…

It will take decades and billions of dollars to meaningfully reduce the amount of guns in the US. We should get started asap.

This would do more harm than good IMO. There is a large proportion of the population that does not want this done, and would actively fight against any attempt to remove their constitutional right to bear arms.

Guns don't kill people, people kill people. I think focusing on mental health and inequality/poverty alleviation is a more viable option in our country than weapons removal.

Re: Police Homicides in the United States

#175

Post by TheAdamAndChe »

alphonsegaston wrote: post #159
krapp wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm no fan of the NRA but let's be honest about cause and effect. Fear by the police, the proliferation of firearms in the US and the arms race between the people and the state are all consequences of the Second Amendment of the US Constitution working, arguably, as intended. The NRA didn't cause any of that, although they do make hay of it for their own political and financial ends.

The proliferation of firearms is a factor, but the main driver is income inequality and racism. You can go to a wealthy white neighborhood in a hard-right place like Texas and there will be plenty of guns. But the cops won’t feel the need to dress up like soldiers and kill people for minor offenses. Enforcing the kind of economic system where the poor have few ways to carve out a better life for themselves necessitat…

> You can go to a wealthy white neighborhood in a hard-right place like Texas and there will be plenty of guns. But the cops won’t feel the need to dress up like soldiers and kill people for minor offenses.

The video of the cop executing an innocent civillian[1] and getting away with it kind of disproves this statement.

I agree that inequality and poverty are the issues, and I agree that there is a correlation between certain races and poverty, but I don't believe that the issue is just racism.

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M62Va6Ft2cw

Re: Police Homicides in the United States

#176

Post by rayiner »

Tomte wrote: post #146
krapp wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm no fan of the NRA but let's be honest about cause and effect. Fear by the police, the proliferation of firearms in the US and the arms race between the people and the state are all consequences of the Second Amendment of the US Constitution working, arguably, as intended. The NRA didn't cause any of that, although they do make hay of it for their own political and financial ends.

The NRA is the predominant defender of 2nd amendment rights, which is, arguably, the second worst idea of the US constitution (after the extreme formulation of the first amendment).

My two favorite amendments!

Re: Police Homicides in the United States

#177

Post by krapp »

macintux wrote: post #160
refurb wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really? My position is that the 2nd amendment is one of the best ideas in the US Constitution.

If the 2nd amendment were a great idea, they'd have written it intelligibly. Some of us parse the rationale such that it seems obsolete: we no longer rely on a militia to defend the nation, we have a professional military for it. > A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State Some of us, obviously, don't.

The authors probably thought it was intelligible, the intent was obvious and didn't need to be elaborated on.

And now we're still arguing about the meaning of that damned comma...

Re: Police Homicides in the United States

#178

Post by maxerickson »

TheAdamAndChe wrote: post #174
maxerickson wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It will take decades and billions of dollars to meaningfully reduce the amount of guns in the US. We should get started asap.

This would do more harm than good IMO. There is a large proportion of the population that does not want this done, and would actively fight against any attempt to remove their constitutional right to bear arms. Guns don't kill people, people kill people. I think focusing on mental health and inequality/poverty alleviation is a more viable option in our country than weapons removal.

I think the method matters. Building support for amending the Constitution and then doing that would undermine the argument about arms being a constitutional right.

Of course that could happen in parallel with policies that fit into current law and have a more immediate impact.

Re: Police Homicides in the United States

#179

Post by HarryHirsch »

refurb wrote: post #151
Tomte wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The NRA is the predominant defender of 2nd amendment rights, which is, arguably, the second worst idea of the US constitution (after the extreme formulation of the first amendment).

Really? My position is that the 2nd amendment is one of the best ideas in the US Constitution.

I feel that the Citizens' Committee to Investigate the FBI did more to keep the overreaching State in check than all the handguns combined.

Re: Police Homicides in the United States

#180

Post by TheAdamAndChe »

maxerickson wrote: post #178
TheAdamAndChe wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This would do more harm than good IMO. There is a large proportion of the population that does not want this done, and would actively fight against any attempt to remove their constitutional right to bear arms. Guns don't kill people, people kill people. I think focusing on mental health and inequality/poverty alleviation is a more viable option in our country than weapons removal.

I think the method matters. Building support for amending the Constitution and then doing that would undermine the argument about arms being a constitutional right. Of course that could happen in parallel with policies that fit into current law and have a more immediate impact.

> Building support for amending the Constitution and then doing that would undermine the argument about arms being a constitutional right.

My point is that this isn't possible. There is _not_ popular support for these kind of changes, and if you think there is, I implore you to spend some time talking to people from the Midwest. There absolutely would be armed resistance to these kinds of changes, assuming an amendment could be passed(which it can't).

You've got to be practical and realistic with legislation. Would it be better if there were no guns? Maybe, but the reality is that millions of people in the US have guns, and millions of people will always have guns. We've got to learn to work around that.

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