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Don't tell people to turn off Windows Update

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Re: Don't tell people to turn off Windows Update

#211

Post by simias »

viraptor wrote: post #189
simias wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm still inclined to blame that on MS really. Poor ergonomics. I can understand the OS telling me to reboot if I haven't restarted the computer in a few days after an update took place but there's no reason to harass me immediately after an update got installed (unless it's a critical 0-day patch I suppose). But really, it's getting worse. I remember seeing a bunch of articles last month about how to preemptively de…

Your last paragraph is confusing. It seems those people rely on your support. Are you really saying you'd rather deal with potential results of them not upgrading than with the upgrade failures? I'm assuming that if they come to you with one, the also do with the other.

Well it's just that one position is more comfortable than the other. If they don't update and have an issue then it's on them. If I insist they turn on Windows update and then something goes wrong then it's on me. It's a bit cowardly but as a Linux/BSD guy I just can't stand doing Windows support anymore. Every version is worse than the last, everything is dumbed down to the max and when something goes wrong you're screwed unless you're a PowerShell wizard.

The other day I helped a friend set up a new computer, we installed a brand new (paid for) Windows 10 on it, straight from the Microsoft-provided DVD.

It worked just fine for a few hours, then it would get stuck in a reboot loop continuously. You'd log in and 10 seconds later it'd hard reboots.

Given the brutality of the crash I assumed a driver issue or something like that. Turns out it's just Windows failing to install an update and crashing the OS for some reason. So I thought "well, let's just boot up and quickly disable auto-updates". You can't do that. "Well let's boot up in safe mode". Nothing works in safe mode, you can't access Windows update (the page remains blank). We ended up downloading an updated version of windows and reinstalling it.

I have a Windows 10 PC that I use for gaming, the creator's update installed itself the other day. Amongst other niceties it added a MS edge link in my taskbar and changed my desktop wallpaper. I also noticed that it tries to argue with you when you try to change the default browser from Edge to something else ("We're good now, we promise!!"). Minor details, nothing major but it adds up to a general distrust for the OS and the feeling that I'm not in charge of my own computer.

I just can't put up with that nonsense anymore. If my friends want support they'll run Linux, otherwise I'll let them deal with Microsoft's support or whatever.

Re: Don't tell people to turn off Windows Update

#212

Post by madiathomas »

bigbugbag wrote: post #195
madiathomas wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my case, it is simply too expensive to download updates. I live in a country which is notorious for expensive data prices. I don't mind interruptions. That's a good problem to have. The choice for me is between spending a week's worth of groceries to download updates periodically or spending that money to buy food and risk getting my PC infected.

You have a few possible alternative: switch to a different kind of OS, use sneakernet to share updates with people around you. etc

Majority of software I use only available on Windows. Visual Studio, MS SQL Server and Microsoft Office. I tried switching to Fedora.

Re: Don't tell people to turn off Windows Update

#213

Post by a2decrow »

throwaway2048 wrote: post #191
bigbugbag wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The anti-vaxxers analogy is utter nonsense and reads like a poor attempt at hitting the credibility of people disabling windows update. The anti-vaxxer movement makes no sense outside the backfire effect, in almost all cases it has little to no basis or justifications. On the other hand there is a long history of very valid reasons of distrusting windows update and disabling it. Using windows update to force people i…

Id say the comparison would actually make sense if vaccines DID give you autism.

But they don't.

Autism is the product of having a differently wired brain than a non-autist does. It's something you're born with, not something you can get later.

Certain medications used by pregnant women can result in children being autistic, but I seriously doubt that this extends to any vaccines as well. Perhaps some really exotic ones maybe, but common vaccination definitely not.

Source: I am autistic, read up on it to be able to better deal with it and am dealing with it on a daily basis.

And truth be told, I don't know if I'd be better or worse off without it. It doesn't make my life unlivable and I guess the understanding of autism of most people is too much based on rumor-mongering and hearsay, than any actual facts.

Re: Don't tell people to turn off Windows Update

#214

Post by Silhouette »

nu5500 wrote: post #109
keldaris wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally, I run a single Win10 desktop (all of my laptops are Linux-only) that I update roughly annually, by allocating an entire day for going through the updates one by one and getting rid of any Microsoft malware along the way. I am far more concerned about Microsoft's own malware than any ransomware floating around the Internet. Of course, I've also had SMBv1 disabled for many years (there's no reason to retain…

Really? You're more concerned about the software being provided to you by Microsoft, who is at least presumably trying to keep you as a satisfied customer and provide a secure operating system then you are for faceless hackers connected to the Internet who's whole objective is to either out right steal people's money, disrupt people's lives, or else subvert your computer in order to launch attacks on other users?

You're more concerned about the software being provided to you by Microsoft ... then you are for faceless hackers connected to the Internet

Yes. And there is no /s on this comment.

We don't use much recent Microsoft software because we no longer trust it. They are going down a path we don't want to follow.

With the older OSes that we do still use, principally Windows 7, we are similarly sceptical about updates, and typically we only apply necessary security patches now.

[Edit: For whoever is downvoting a lot of the comments with this sort of sentiment, you might consider that objectively we have had far more downtime as a result of bad updates from Microsoft than as a result of malicious actions by hackers over recent years, and I doubt we're alone in that.]

Re: Don't tell people to turn off Windows Update

#215

Post by simias »

throwaway47861 wrote: post #192
simias wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm still inclined to blame that on MS really. Poor ergonomics. I can understand the OS telling me to reboot if I haven't restarted the computer in a few days after an update took place but there's no reason to harass me immediately after an update got installed (unless it's a critical 0-day patch I suppose). But really, it's getting worse. I remember seeing a bunch of articles last month about how to preemptively de…

It's not Microsoft's fault that you can't say "no", though.

That's not my point. Enabling Windows Update shouldn't be a trade-off. The fact that disabling it constitutes a quality-of-life improvement for many demonstrates that Microsoft is doing something terribly wrong.

I should be able to tell my friends "yes, you should turn on auto updates, there's absolutely no reason not to" without having to follow with any caveats like "oh well, it can upgrade your OS, reboot on you when you don't expect it and change the ergonomics of your desktop without asking you but in the end it's worth it for the security updates, and it's not like you have a choice anyway".

Re: Don't tell people to turn off Windows Update

#216

Post by jdmichal »

ams6110 wrote: post #173
UK-AL wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Windows also tells you it will perform an update on restart. It says "Update and restart" rather than just restart.

But it doesn't have a "restart and defer update" option. If you need to restart for some other reason, you're forced to take the update.

In cmd or PowerShell:

shutdown /r /t 0

AFAIK, this has always avoided updates.

Re: Don't tell people to turn off Windows Update

#217

Post by quaffapint »

eiji wrote: post #28
CydeWeys wrote: post #4

I love the way he's compared the people who tell you to turn off auto-updates with anti-vaxxers; it's quite an apt analogy. Microsoft shares part of the blame here for pushing features that the user clearly doesn't want through updates (especially to the major OS version). Look at the recent ads in Windows file explorer for one example. A lot of the advice to turn Windows Update off is a misguided response to Microso…

Taskbar > Context menu > Cortana > ( Hidden / Show icon / Show search box )

Or the free O&O ShutUp10 tool provides a nice GUI to edit a lot of these settings (no more Cortana integration is one)... https://www.oo-software.com/en/shutup10

Re: Don't tell people to turn off Windows Update

#218

Post by bigbugbag »

setq wrote: post #11

I don't know why people complain about updates and restarting, particularly in this thread. You fill your car up with fuel regularly because it has been warning you it's nearly empty for a while much like updates remind you regularly. People seem to complain and say "it updated right when I was in the middle of X" but they've been putting it off for ages. Do you break down in the middle of the motorway when you run o…

I fill the gas tank because I monitor the fuel gauge, not because it warns me that it's nearly empty.

Using an appropriate analogy to make something clearer works better than shoehorning something to push your view.

I plug my laptop to charge the battery when convenient and operate in a geographical area where power shortages are still an exception so I have no fuel issue in my computer usage whether I use automatic system update or not.

Actually I do not use automatic system update, if there is such a thing for this OS, it is discouraged as updates can sometimes break the system if applied blindly.

How exactly can someone not applying updates when windows asks for it put everyone else at risk ? What risk do I face from this from behind my BSD firewall on an Arch linux powered computer ?

Then again my experience of windows computers since windows update was introduced is not in line with what you describe here, getting even worse in recent times with updates applying themselves with little to no warning, sometimes running several times in a row: logs you out of your computer, applies updates for 10-45 minutes, reboots, applies updates for 15-60 minutes, logs you in, crawls your computer down by downloading more updates, logs you out of your computer, applies update for 10-45 minutes, etc...

I've witnessed this happens 3 times in a single week, the owner of the computer was pissed, I'm paid by the hour and happily browsed the web on my linux laptop while the client pestered against his computer, microsoft, technology, corporations, politicians allowing this to happen and so on.

Re: Don't tell people to turn off Windows Update

#219

Post by hackmiester »

ams6110 wrote: post #173
UK-AL wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Windows also tells you it will perform an update on restart. It says "Update and restart" rather than just restart.

But it doesn't have a "restart and defer update" option. If you need to restart for some other reason, you're forced to take the update.

Holding shift while opening the power menu and clicking Restart used to do this, but admittedly, I haven't tried it in a while.

Re: Don't tell people to turn off Windows Update

#220

Post by bigbugbag »

setq wrote: post #31
txmx2000 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are driving down the interstate, message pops up saying it needs to refuel, you don't hit the button fast enough, your cars shuts off, and you spend the next 15 minutes parked in the middle of the road with cars honking behind you. Or you wake up, get dressed for an important meeting, unlock your door, and suddenly realize you're going to be late because your car decided this was the best time to finish refueling…

This has never happened to me unless I've actively ignored it and I sit in front of a Windows PC for 12 hours a day and have done for 19 years.

Nice anecdotal evidence.

Mine is that this has never happened to me since I switched to different OSs than Microsoft's, circa windows XP.

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