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Growing Ubuntu for Cloud and IoT, Rather Than Phone and Convergence

insights.ubuntu.com

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Re: Growing Ubuntu for Cloud and IoT, Rather Than Phone and Convergence

#211

Post by darkr »

wmf wrote: post #181
mwj wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Containers are for a completely different use case than system packages.

CoreOS and RancherOS have shown how everything can either be built into the base OS image or running in Docker, with no system packages needed.

I think this had been shown somewhat before the time of these whippersnapper distros (Slackware, LFS etc), indeed before the days of RPM, make && make install directly on production servers were how things were done.. and it was not good.

Also; in the case of CoreOS, the base image is still built using a package manager (portage). Not sure about that other guy.

Re: Growing Ubuntu for Cloud and IoT, Rather Than Phone and Convergence

#212

Post by javajosh »

AtticusTheGreat wrote: post #156
gshulegaard wrote: post #57

I may be a minority, but I am very saddened by this. Not because I have any particular love for Unity, but rather I share Mark's conviction that convergence is the future. Love or hate it but Unity was IMO the best shot we had at getting an open source unified phone, tablet and desktop experience...and now this is effectively Canonical not only shutting down Unity, but refocusing efforts away from convergence and tow…

As someone who applauds this pivot, I never saw much value in the whole convergence idea. Why would I want my laptop and phone to be the same device? This seems to follow the misguided idea in software that if two ideas are similar, just make a single generic idea that solves both problems. But then you get into leaky abstractions and have to make lots of sacrifices to get it working well for both use cases.

Application convergence already happens via the browser; this takes much wind out of the sails of OS convergence. However, it also means that browser focused OSes, ChromeBook and FireFoxOS, will probably be the ones to win, in the end.

Re: Growing Ubuntu for Cloud and IoT, Rather Than Phone and Convergence

#213

Post by ZenoArrow »

Mailtemi wrote: post #110
ZenoArrow wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps you overlooked this? https://www.tizen.org/blogs/dh0922/2016/tizen-.net-developer... https://www.tizen.org/blogs/myungjae/2017/samsung%E2%80%99s-...

C# look like a dead end, though much better than first WinPhone with "SilverLight." If you have written c/ or c++ engine, you need just a good bridge to OS UI language. Well, also platform + tools that work well on each Unix/Linux. Just to mention I used to like MS technologies. Least problems I had with ASP 2 / AJAX web app which works for nine years without significant problems.

>"C# look like a dead end"

http://statisticstimes.com/tech/top-computer-languages.php

> "you need just a good bridge to OS UI language"

For moblie apps, Xamarin is that bridge (can always build web apps too):

https://www.xamarin.com/

Plus, .NET Core is cross-platform, good cross-platform tooling becoming available (VS Code, etc...), and you don't have to use C#.

If you're interested in writing games, Unity uses .NET (Mono in particular):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unity_(game_engine)

Re: Growing Ubuntu for Cloud and IoT, Rather Than Phone and Convergence

#214

Post by sdm »

AtticusTheGreat wrote: post #156
gshulegaard wrote: post #57

I may be a minority, but I am very saddened by this. Not because I have any particular love for Unity, but rather I share Mark's conviction that convergence is the future. Love or hate it but Unity was IMO the best shot we had at getting an open source unified phone, tablet and desktop experience...and now this is effectively Canonical not only shutting down Unity, but refocusing efforts away from convergence and tow…

As someone who applauds this pivot, I never saw much value in the whole convergence idea. Why would I want my laptop and phone to be the same device? This seems to follow the misguided idea in software that if two ideas are similar, just make a single generic idea that solves both problems. But then you get into leaky abstractions and have to make lots of sacrifices to get it working well for both use cases.

Portability and duplication. I don't want to have to lug a phone and laptop everywhere. They both can do the same thing and increasing have the same amount of power. You have different interfaces for how you interact with them: on the go or at a desk. But you can just pick up and go somewhere else and pick up without missing a beat.

Re: Growing Ubuntu for Cloud and IoT, Rather Than Phone and Convergence

#215

Post by Elhana »

karussell wrote: post #186

Honest question: how is Canonical making money in the cloud with ubuntu? Everytime someone installs an image with 'Ubuntu' in the name the cloud provider has to pay Canonical? Or what else could be the main revenue stream 'in the cloud'?

Short answer: Enterprise bosses like support contracts, because it covers their asses. You can basically ask the same question about redhat.

Re: Growing Ubuntu for Cloud and IoT, Rather Than Phone and Convergence

#216

Post by xorblurb »

bsharitt wrote: post #103
Afforess wrote: post #11

Damn. From the horses mouth: https://insights.ubuntu.com/2017/04/05/growing-ubuntu-for-cl... I might be a small minority, but I _like_ Unity 7. I have never used Unity 8, and I thought the Ubuntu phone was misspent effort, but wow. Now I have to figure out if there is a way to style Gnome to look like Unity 7. I wonder what this means for Mir vs Wayland as well.

Hopefully this means that Wayland is now the unified future for the Linux desktop. I don't think it would be too hard for Canonical to create some installed by default extensions and themes to make Unity users feel more at home in Gnome. The global menu is the only thing I can think of that would maybe be a little too tricky to be worth the effort.

Wayland is the future is now the equivalent of the year of the Linux Desktop.

In a way, maybe the year of the Linux Desktop was more convincing. At least people knew why they wanted that.

Re: Growing Ubuntu for Cloud and IoT, Rather Than Phone and Convergence

#217

Post by mhall119 »

AndyKelley wrote: post #135
pkd wrote: post #17

Let me say that the only thing I am sad about is Unity 8. I genuinely liked Unity and it's easy to use, not-too-resource-hungry interface. I definitely do not like GNOME as much. It lacks the cohesion that Unity has (I understand why, but that doesn't negate the point). I will be happy to see if the best parts of Unity make it back to GNOME - GNOME just feels clunky right now. But I will continue using Ubuntu regardl…

> easy to use, not-too-resource-hungry interface. what? unity? has it changed so much in the last 2 years that its defining features have changed from being difficult to use, resource-hungry, to the opposite of that?

Unity 8 is a complete re-write based on Qt5 and Mir, it dropped dependency on X11/Compiz and the custom Nux toolkit.

Re: Growing Ubuntu for Cloud and IoT, Rather Than Phone and Convergence

#218

Post by shady-lady »

Grue3 wrote: post #146
dumbmatter wrote: post #104

This is awesome. When that "What do you want to see in Ubuntu 17.10?" post https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14002821 was up recently, I wanted to say "Get rid of the abomination that is Unity" but figured it'd just be flamebait. Little did I know how close my dreams were to coming true!

Gnome (for major versions > 2) is even worse than Unity though. They should've chosen an actually usable DM like Cinnamon.

100% disagree. Used Mint(& Cinnamon) for years. Recently switched to Fedora 24/25 (+ Gnome).

I will never go back. Gnome is way more polished and enjoyable to use.

Actually enjoyable.

Re: Growing Ubuntu for Cloud and IoT, Rather Than Phone and Convergence

#219

Post by sbuttgereit »

hd4 wrote: post #125

I'm one of the people who asked for less NIH in Ubuntu in the recent thread https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14002821 but I didn't think they would take it this far. Jokes aside, it's sad that Unity won't be developed further. I'm one of the ones who loves Unity 7, it's always been faster and less memory hungry than GNOME or KDE for me. I will just have to cling onto the LTS for as long as possible. In the long-t…

I there with you. I actually liked Unity and by 7 it was very nice to work with.

Re: Growing Ubuntu for Cloud and IoT, Rather Than Phone and Convergence

#220

Post by ZenoArrow »

pjmlp wrote: post #210
ZenoArrow wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd suggest the best remaining option for a FOSS-driven phone (now that Canonical have dropped the ball) is Tizen. It's got the backing of a large phone manufacturer (Samsung) and the Linux Foundation, and seems to be actively developed. It'll probably end up being used on low-end devices at first, but is likely to be more open than the two leading platforms, so hopefully they get some traction amongst tech community…

Tizen is a joke, they already rebooted the SDK multiple times. 1 - GTK+ based 2 - Took Bada OS C++ SDK with its Symbian C++ like flavour 3 - Rewrote the C++ API into something more appealing 4 - Thrown everything away and replaced with EFL, plain C API with C++ will come soon 5 - Now they are adopting .NET Core with Xamarin Forms How can anyone invest time developing for them?

>"How can anyone invest time developing for them?"

What alternative do you suggest? I suggested they were the best remaining option for an open-source mobile OS now that Ubuntu were dropping out of the race. What other options are there? Sailfish? Anything else?

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