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Peter Thiel’s Embrace of Trump Has Silicon Valley Squirming

nytimes.com

211–220 of 223 posts

Re: Peter Thiel’s Embrace of Trump Has Silicon Valley Squirming

#211
post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Mexico has a massive border wall on its southern border with Guatemala" No it doesn't.

https://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/row/R41349.pdf p15 If you want to argue that security cordons and fences are not a "wall", then fine. There is no wall on the southern border of Mexico. Just a security cordon and fences.

Trump has said he wanted to build more than a security cordon and fences.

Re: Peter Thiel’s Embrace of Trump Has Silicon Valley Squirming

#212

There are quite a few Trump supporters in the Valley, but they simply stay quiet because they will get 'racist' yelled at them and it will potentially hurt their careers.

If there is much squirming much of it has to be dishonest, because the popular attitudes that I see displayed in the Valley and here on HN are rather in line with Trump's anti-PC, dismissive-of-sexism-or-racism-claims, anti-afirmative action, pro-business, pro-money rhetoric.

Re: Peter Thiel’s Embrace of Trump Has Silicon Valley Squirming

#213
post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being included in the debates is not winning. I consider myself to be mostly a Libertarian, but I have no illusions. Short of some beyond comprehension post-singularity-ish event, no Libertarian will ever win the Presidency.

> Short of some beyond comprehension post-singularity-ish event, no Libertarian will ever win the Presidency. Partisan realignments in which a major party is displaced are not "beyond comprehension post-singularity events" (heck, even the kind of electoral reforms that would end duopoly aren't, though they are unprecedented within the US, unlike major realignments) even if its been 150 years since the last one in the…

"unprecedented within the US"

I'm at a loss to see how we disagree on my point. The libertarian party won't be upending our two-party system at the national level. Ever.

Re: Peter Thiel’s Embrace of Trump Has Silicon Valley Squirming

#214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I still feel that there is a real difference in the shamelessness of Trump's lies. Many easily contradictable. At least Hillary would care if she was caught out, that puts some constraint on her.

that makes her more dangerous, not less. I would always prefer the devil I know...

But isn't that Clinton? We have no real idea of Trump's policies. He barely strings full sentences together, just fragments of thoughts that people turn into the full policies that they want in their own minds.

He makes things up in writing such as who wrote his wife's speech that he really doesn't need to; surely less lies is better than more.

Re: Peter Thiel’s Embrace of Trump Has Silicon Valley Squirming

#215
post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Short of some beyond comprehension post-singularity-ish event, no Libertarian will ever win the Presidency. Partisan realignments in which a major party is displaced are not "beyond comprehension post-singularity events" (heck, even the kind of electoral reforms that would end duopoly aren't, though they are unprecedented within the US, unlike major realignments) even if its been 150 years since the last one in the…

"unprecedented within the US" I'm at a loss to see how we disagree on my point. The libertarian party won't be upending our two-party system at the national level. Ever.

I imagine he's ok with the Libertarian party displacing one of the other two.

Re: Peter Thiel’s Embrace of Trump Has Silicon Valley Squirming

#216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mexico has a massive border wall on its southern border with Guatemala. Is that racist too? Not sure exactly what you mean by anti-trade, and how it relates to racism. Mexican is a nationality, not a race. There are Mexicans of all races, including white(which latinos are classed as, but lets say western european ethnicity too) Islam is a religion, not a race. There are Muslims of all races, including white.

"Mexico has a massive border wall on its southern border with Guatemala." See, here is how it goes. You are a vociferous Trump supporter on the Internet. At the same time, you repeat false things that you heard from some other idiot. It's not much of a leap from there to the conclusion that all Trump supporters are idiots.

Please don't be uncivil on HN, regardless of how wrong someone or some group is.

Re: Peter Thiel’s Embrace of Trump Has Silicon Valley Squirming

#217
post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nations continue to exist without border security -- and, indeed, without the nation having borders or a state to secure them.

I am not being smug, just genuinely curious - can you provide contemporary examples of a major nation without border security?

Major nations, in the modern era of national and supra-national states, tend to either have their own state or dominate a supranational state, and so tend to have border security (which is necessary for an effective state, though less important to a nation.)

Of course, several centuries in to the era of the nation-state as a dominant form, lots of people confuse states and nations.

Re: Peter Thiel’s Embrace of Trump Has Silicon Valley Squirming

#218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm hesitant to believe anyone who says definitively what trump 'is'. Because there is no voting record to speak of legislation wise, everything is just speculation based on what he says. And he says a lot of things.

A voting record is the only way to determine that?

Well, one way in which we validate people's trustworthiness is whether their word matches their deed. Trump's words are inconsistent among themselves, and he has zero actions to put any of them against.

Re: Peter Thiel’s Embrace of Trump Has Silicon Valley Squirming

#219
post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He has criticized John McCain and Lindsey Graham over their pro war stances. In the debates he has mentioned problems with the interventionist foreign policy. Surprisingly he even attracted support of Michael Scheuer ( a huge critic of our interventionist foreign policy), although I believe he has pulled back a bit on that recently. However, yes he has also made somewhat contradictory statements as well. So, it is ha…

Honest question: if that's really what you believe (that he's fundamentally unpredictable), why would you vote for him?

I don't find him credible enough to vote for him. However, what I have observed is that some feel that Clinton is a certainty in continuing our existing foreign policy and that the choice is between certain more war and maybe less war and they are opting for the maybe less war. The one facet he has been mostly consistent on to my knowledge is at least he is not trying to push an aggressive provoking stance against Russia.

It will be very interesting of Gary Johnson can succeed in getting into the debates. If he has a good performance, that could really change everything.

Re: Peter Thiel’s Embrace of Trump Has Silicon Valley Squirming

#220
post #9

From Peter Thiels perspective its a smart move because he's the only one willing to do something this crazy. This gives him a "monopoly" (as he likes to say) on political access as it relates to the tech world if Trump wins. In short it looks like a bet. Personally I find Trump an archetype of everything I'm trying to get away from in life.... but that is not the point. Also this is just my opinion and maybe their is…

I don't think you're wrong but I think there is more to it than that. This isn't a short term speculation.

If you have a classical education (reading lots of old books) then this is all perfectly comprehensible. The story Thiel tells is also intuitively comprehensible to blue collar workers without being fortified by intellectual assistance. Having both a classical reading library and a blue collar background everything I have seen so far makes perfect sense.

If however you're part of what the WaPo describes as:

"The one publicly acceptable reason seems to be that Silicon Valley needs to become more than an ossified monoculture of liberal upper-class privileged ethnic groups.

“Tech industry is primarily out of touch by being too far to the Left,” tweeted investor Keith Rabois, in a conversation about Thiel."

Then nothing will ever make sense, just as the Remain voters in Brexit literally find their loss incomprehensible. There is nothing wrong with being left oriented politically, it's a perfectly acceptable set of values that society often requires but if you're surrounded by people identical to yourself you're unlikely to get substantive negative feedback.

I have to say that in experience the middle classes are much more resistant to the realization everything is not improving outside of computers despite the evidence surrounding them. When they see troubles ahead they want to shoot the messengers, usually by describing individuals as mentally ill or conjuring up bogeymen like the Nazis, they are extremely resistant to the idea we are dealing with a systemic problem. A decline is not in their portfolio or in their suite of mental models.

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