I'd say financial security sufficient to not live on debt, decent accommodations, health care, and dignity in old age. Applies just as much to everyone as it does to whites or the working class, and statistically the black working class has it worse.
>I'd say financial security sufficient to not live on debt. I think most people have been convinced not to try to make that happen.
Few try to make that happen except maybe people with shopping addictions. For over a decade now we've used debt as a substitute for wage increases.
Am I the only one that finds it odd after reading an article about someone making $11/hr in factory losing their job, the top-voted comment (and a good number of the replies) is one lamenting their $150k salary?
I read it as someone lamenting that they have it so easy - nice chair, free snacks, reading code all day - while the author's loved ones are really struggling. And at the same time, the author isn't really rich by the standards of SV - but is rich by the standards of wherever they came from.
Completely off-topic, but whenever I see these amounts I feel like either I don't understand how U.S. economy works or I've been living in poverty my whole life. I'm recently graduated B.Sc in compsci and I'm doing software testing and to me 30k/year is plenty. Like I have money to buy all kind of unnecessary stuff for my hobbies. Is 30k/year really low salary in U.S.? Or am I just being under paid? I always though m…
The U.S. economy is geographically spread out and enormous . However, due to various historic reasons, the population is mostly focused at the coasts, and for other historic reasons, the north-west and north-eastern coastal areas are the wealthiest and densest. More people and more money means more demand and higher prices. In the rest of the country, which is fairly sparse, you can find high standards of living, min…
Roommates can make a huge difference in this math. Which is how someone actually making 30k / year can live in the same area where people 'struggle' making 100k/year. The classic tech approach of not actually cooking is also a huge money sink.
PS: You can actually just flat out save 1 million by mid 30's working for big co.
The problem is, is that 'good jobs' are hard to find even if you have a good education. If you do, you can look forward to 60-80 work weeks, expensive housing and child care, and of course massive student loan debt. Very few of the things that were available to the middle class 25 years ago are available to the best and brightest today. The question is, is there anything that can be done about it, it was the period b…
With some frugality, I think it's physically and economically possible. Imagine an America where grandparents (and great-grandparents if any) live with one of their children's family. Assuming an average of two children per grandparent, it will be half of the households will have 2 children, 2 parents, and 2 grandparents, and the other half the traditional nuclear family. The nursing home infrastructure will be much…
I'm certain that you haven't given this idea enough thought with respect to the unintended consequences.
Am I the only one that finds it odd after reading an article about someone making $11/hr in factory losing their job, the top-voted comment (and a good number of the replies) is one lamenting their $150k salary?
It's not odd. It's the sick state of the world. A lot of high-earning software people have low-wage workers in their immediate family. Which makes it suck doubly.
I'm in software. My brother went into medicine. I don't talk about my job at home anymore, because both of us know what shitty perspectives he has in front of him for the next decade or so. I do what I can to support him (and the rest of my family), to make sure there are no stupid blockers hindering his growth opportunities. But I still can't really cope with the income potential difference. It's a topic we avoid talking about.
It is sad situation but it is true for all races and nationalities. Low skilled work will be valued less and less. A structure of extended family is important which modern society has forgotten.
I currently work in Finland and earn $35k/year, but granted I currently live alone in a small flat. I own older model car. I don't consume a lot of food. Which leaves me with most of my salary to spend/save as I see fit. Maybe in time I come to see lack of my salary, but for past ~4 years I only had student welfare which left me with little less than 200€/mo (~$220) after rent and stuff for food and what little hobbi…
As other people have said, it makes little sense comparing wages between states in the same country, even less between countries... If I´m not mistaken, Finland has free healthcare, education and generous welfare system (that you said you benefited from, as you should), all of these should be taken into account when making comparisons, since they factor in the taxes companies have to pay for hiring people. That said,…
I did some checking after work and apparently I'm earning what Finnish Engineering Union suggests for new engineer without working experience.
Other sources aren't nearly as helpful, but they put me somewhere in the middle of all people (or something).
I'm sure some people earn more, especially closer to Helsinki, but currently I'm content with my earnings.
Completely off-topic, but whenever I see these amounts I feel like either I don't understand how U.S. economy works or I've been living in poverty my whole life. I'm recently graduated B.Sc in compsci and I'm doing software testing and to me 30k/year is plenty. Like I have money to buy all kind of unnecessary stuff for my hobbies. Is 30k/year really low salary in U.S.? Or am I just being under paid? I always though m…
In a lot of metropolitan areas, a lack of home building means there are eleven people bidding against one another for ten homes. If you give all eleven people an extra $x, they'll all put it into their bids and house prices will rise by $x. If you think software developers in SV have it bad, imagine how it must be for cleaners and food service workers in the same areas.
>If you think software developers in SV have it bad, imagine how it must be for cleaners and food service workers in the same areas.
This is what bothers me about SV devs bemoaning how high the cost of living is. The self absorption is really offputting. Oh, you can't afford a house in Palo Alto? How sad for you. The guy cleaning your table probably commutes for an hour on BART and still spends the majority of his money on rent.
I lived in the bay area for a while. I get that housing is absurdly expensive, to the point that six figures doesn't feel like a lot. It is a lot, though. Saying things like "six figures isn't really much money" is just tone deaf. You aren't poor on six figures.
There was a comment on Reddit about the ingredients to relationships: Common purpose/Shared interest, serendipitous meeting, continual facetime (IIRC). Schools and churches form a ton of relationships due to their nature of bringing people together under a singular purpose and allowing for serendipitous connections to form. It doesn't have to be church that brings people together, and there are other communities that…
> It doesn't have to be church that brings people together, and there are other communities that have church like qualities such as car clubs, user groups, etc. Participation in social activities requires time--the presupposition that you aren't working two jobs to make ends meet.
Strong communities, like congregations in many Protestant denominations, tend to help each other. A lot of life bullshit tends to be cut out this way. You may still need to work your two jobs, but someone will come and stay with your kid for free. Or they'll help you take care of your sick grandmother, so that you only have to quit one job.
I feel you. My brother is a restaurant manager in the middle of Kansas making 30k a year. And he is a smart guy who was a MATH MAJOR at a state school! He could come out here and get a job at a startup and make 80k easily. But he won't leave his inlaws family, so he's stuck in Kansas. There is some strain and resentment in our relationship over our income differential, sure... especially when I want to complain that…
I similarly have family in a rural state that make shit. On the bright side, they own/will own homes and don't live their entire lives around work. It's refreshing to go home, meet strangers, and have discussions that never mention our jobs. On the downside, the state is economically depressed and is probably never going to get better. NAFTA plus the decimation of american car manufacturing really fucked them. My fam…
>On the bright side, they own/will own homes and don't live their entire lives around work.
Also on the downside, these wages make it impossible to ever really retire. You can't save for retirement if you area barely making ends meet. I don't know anyone working a low wage job that looks forward to doing the same job until they die.