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Jeff Bezos Says Amazon Won’t Tolerate ‘Callous’ Management Practices

nytimes.com

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Re: Jeff Bezos Says Amazon Won’t Tolerate ‘Callous’ Management Practices

#211

Post by dpark »

anotherangrydev wrote: post #206
dpark wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Out of curiosity, which bucket does your case fall into? 1. You've had numerous bad experiences with HR across multiple companies, leading you to label "99%" of HR as rotten. 2. You've had one or two bad experiences with HR, and you're extrapolating from that and just assuming that 99% of HR is rotten. 3. Some other option I don't see.

Always had bad experiences with HR, with around 6-7 different companies. Talking with colleagues on the same industry and others found out that my experiences are not isolated incidents, but quite the opposite they've observed pretty similar things. And finally, have a few friends that work themselves into HR and outsourcing (for SAP & Oracle) so I can speak for that environment pretty well, it is a rotten field. And…

I find it odd that you have so many bad experiences with HR at so many different companies, largely because I don't see why you're interacting so much with HR. I've rarely interacted with HR except when I've needed something from them. Why are you, as a dev, crossing paths with HR so often? A bad interaction with HR for me would be someone being rude, or unhelpful, or at worst incompetent. I don't understand why your interactions with HR seem to involve risk to your job. e.g. Why was an HR person even talking to you on your break?

I fall into the bucket that hasn't had bad experiences with HR. They've been helpful when I've needed stuff, which has been minimal. They've been irrelevant the rest of the time. This has been the case at every company I've worked for.

Re: Jeff Bezos Says Amazon Won’t Tolerate ‘Callous’ Management Practices

#212

Post by sgustard »

sagivo wrote: post #11

I'm in the process of joining Amazon as a software engineer manager. I don't know how to respond to this article and if to continue the process with them.

Don't bail out. Take the driver's seat and force them to meet your terms. Ask for a personal meeting with Jeff to pitch you and the company and respond personally to the article. Get multiple offers and see if they are really unable to give you a competitive offer. After you've done a thorough evaluation you can decide whether to move ahead; and they can't be upset if you pass given the publicity. But your opponent is on the ropes right now and it's truly the best time to try to score a sweetened offer.

Re: Jeff Bezos Says Amazon Won’t Tolerate ‘Callous’ Management Practices

#213

Post by kilroy123 »

Mithaldu wrote: post #143
otterley wrote: post #24

I'm actually pleased with Mr. Bezos' response. He doesn't deny any of the stories in the article, and he doesn't try to explain any of them away. His attitude strikes me as one of a problem-solver and one who cares about his company's reputation. I can't recall the last time I heard the CEO of a large company say publicly, "if you've been treated this way, reach out to me personally."

His personal email address is 100% guaranteed staffed by a team of secretaries. It might've been respectable if it had been an email specifically for such complaints and no other user, and instructions on how to send things to it anonymously. But as things stand it's just an attempt to get people like you, who haven't been burned badly enough yet, to think he's actually being "nice" there.

He probably really sees all emails sent to him internally from an amazon email address.

Re: Jeff Bezos Says Amazon Won’t Tolerate ‘Callous’ Management Practices

#214

Post by OnleMeMeMe »

School-Cotton wrote: post #135
OnleMeMeMe wrote: post #54

As if Jeff is reading jeff@amazon.com - would be the first enterprise CEO I know who reads his mail instead of a web of (personal) assistants.

From what I can gather, he reads anything sent from another internal (@amazon.com) address personally. Stuff from outside probably goes to assistants.

Cool, thx.

Re: Jeff Bezos Says Amazon Won’t Tolerate ‘Callous’ Management Practices

#215

Post by richmarr »

serge2k wrote: post #192
richmarr wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I once got fired because I told some bitch... In that one line I think there's two issues you might want to think about. First of all, you're passing judgement apparently without empathising with where she's coming from. If you try to empathise with people rather than letting your amygdala control your response then you'll find life gets much easier. Secondly, that language crosses the line of acceptability, both i…

> and on HN why?

When my four-year-old says "why?" I always prompt him to ask a full question. It helps me understand his thought process and give better answers.

Re: Jeff Bezos Says Amazon Won’t Tolerate ‘Callous’ Management Practices

#216

Post by DaveWalk »

drzaiusapelord wrote: post #114
adventured wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And yet Amazon (3.4) rates comparable on Glassdoor to many other important technology companies, including: Oracle (3.3), Yahoo (3.5), HP (3.3), IBM (3.1), eBay (3.5), Tesla (3.4), Dell (3.4), Cisco (3.7). That's with 5,800+ reviews. Something doesn't add up.

How reliable is glassdoor as a metric? Personally, I would never, ever post anything negative there due to the fear of retaliation. I suspect truly bad companies never get their comeuppance because at the end of the day, you need some kind of reference and positive job history from your previous employer. It may not be that hard to trace a review to a specific employee due to timing, title, salary, etc information.

According to the dozen seasoned job-hunters and recruiters that I know, Glassdoor is absolutely rotten in my industry (biotech). The selection bias is heavy-handed at best. Even Amazon's 5,000+ reviews represent a very small fraction of it's employees globally. These are futher selected as the kind who would review a job online pseudoanomyously.

Furthermore, one doesn't know the age of a review -- is this a current employee, a previous one who left last week or a review of a the job from 10 years ago? It's entirely possible that every problem addressed in a negative review has been since addressed. You just don't know.

Re: Jeff Bezos Says Amazon Won’t Tolerate ‘Callous’ Management Practices

#217

Post by DaveWalk »

sgustard wrote: post #212
sagivo wrote: post #11

I'm in the process of joining Amazon as a software engineer manager. I don't know how to respond to this article and if to continue the process with them.

Don't bail out. Take the driver's seat and force them to meet your terms. Ask for a personal meeting with Jeff to pitch you and the company and respond personally to the article. Get multiple offers and see if they are really unable to give you a competitive offer. After you've done a thorough evaluation you can decide whether to move ahead; and they can't be upset if you pass given the publicity. But your opponent i…

A great point, which I haven't heard anywhere else in this discussion. We the job hunters have the ability to bend the job to our expectation before we start. It's a negotiation, it's an uncomfortable conversation, sure, but it will absolutely pay off no matter what happens in the end. As a bonus, I believe that one gains respect when one speaks up at a job interview and demands what they need to be successful.

Also, this works for every job, everywhere. Very wise advice.

Re: Jeff Bezos Says Amazon Won’t Tolerate ‘Callous’ Management Practices

#218

Post by anotherangrydev »

dpark wrote: post #211
anotherangrydev wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Always had bad experiences with HR, with around 6-7 different companies. Talking with colleagues on the same industry and others found out that my experiences are not isolated incidents, but quite the opposite they've observed pretty similar things. And finally, have a few friends that work themselves into HR and outsourcing (for SAP & Oracle) so I can speak for that environment pretty well, it is a rotten field. And…

I find it odd that you have so many bad experiences with HR at so many different companies, largely because I don't see why you're interacting so much with HR. I've rarely interacted with HR except when I've needed something from them. Why are you, as a dev, crossing paths with HR so often? A bad interaction with HR for me would be someone being rude, or unhelpful, or at worst incompetent. I don't understand why your…

How many different HR departments?

Re: Jeff Bezos Says Amazon Won’t Tolerate ‘Callous’ Management Practices

#219

Post by dpark »

anotherangrydev wrote: post #218
dpark wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find it odd that you have so many bad experiences with HR at so many different companies, largely because I don't see why you're interacting so much with HR. I've rarely interacted with HR except when I've needed something from them. Why are you, as a dev, crossing paths with HR so often? A bad interaction with HR for me would be someone being rude, or unhelpful, or at worst incompetent. I don't understand why your…

How many different HR departments?

Three

Re: Jeff Bezos Says Amazon Won’t Tolerate ‘Callous’ Management Practices

#220

Post by blindhippo »

mikestew wrote: post #144
blindhippo wrote: post #23

First world problems like no other... We're talking about highly paid professionals working at a rather cushy job all things considered. It's like listening to rich kids complain about having blue M&M's touching the red M&M's in their bowl of candy. Nothing in this whole bit of drama is shocking other then I'm not quite sure why Amazon is being singled out. All of the complaints made are systematic problems in any la…

> The chief competition is Walmart - are the activists going to order from them instead? How is that any better ethically? Go away, constructor of straw men. The world is not solely comprised of Wal-Mart and Amazon.

What? It's true, the current main threat to Amazon in the US is Walmart. I stand by my argument - you're disparaging me while providing zero evidence to back up your argument.
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