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How Software in Half of NYC Cabs Generates $5.2M a Year in Extra Tips

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Re: How Software in Half of NYC Cabs Generates $5.2M a Year in Extra Tips

#201

Post by vosper »

jmccree wrote: post #178
parennoob wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. I come from a culture where tipping implies "reward for good service". But in the US, I always feel that if I tip less than the expected 20%, practically I may be cutting into someone's wages. If they demand the difference, they may end up getting fired by their boss. Does anyone know if these workers are that helpless in practice? Or can they make a single call and get the restaurant owner in trouble if he/she…

It's really not that most restaurants wouldn't make up the wages to the minimum. The minimum wage in most US states is not for most people would call a "living wage, it's around $15k/yr. It's not uncommon in a major city for waiters to be able to pull in $30-60k/year. The thing is that in many place tips are paid out in cash at the end of their shift, so if you don't tip you're literally taking money out of their poc…

Except that you're not "literally taking money out of their pocket for that day" - that would imply that the money was rightfully theirs, and that you've essentially stolen it from them by not tipping. That's not how tipping works - it's the customers money, given at their discretion. There's a strong sense of obligation felt by most people, but it is ultimately optional.

Re: How Software in Half of NYC Cabs Generates $5.2M a Year in Extra Tips

#202

Post by zhte415 »

lucaspiller wrote: post #163
pmoriarty wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's even worse in Europe, where a "mandatory tip" is already included in your bill by the time you get it. The service in Europe tends to be of a much lower quality than in the US as well. In general, the US is a consumer paradise compared to Europe. In the US, it's better to be a consumer than an employee. In Europe it's the opposite.

> It's even worse in Europe, where a "mandatory tip" is already included in your bill by the time you get it. Recently a lot of restaurants in London have started adding this, however the "service charge" is completely optional (UK advertising laws state that the advertised price, in the menu, should include all fees and taxes). I think they've only done this as European tourists are used to it, so they can get more…

Service charge included in the bill, often 10-15%, has been standard for decades, though some restaurants decline to add it, as it is optional. You can refuse to pay it when included in the bill.

Tipping in the UK is not expected, nor is it expected that visitors from Europe will tip, unless they're tricked into expecting tipping is expected. It is appreciated, but not expected.

This is London, other parts of the UK may vary.

Re: How Software in Half of NYC Cabs Generates $5.2M a Year in Extra Tips

#203

Post by jmccree »

crmd wrote: post #25
infinotize wrote: post #22

I thought this was a pretty blatant cheap trick the first time I saw it (similar to restaurants putting tip calculations on bills from 18-25% (which are usually post-tax no less!!)) and on the occasion I am in a cab always punch in "Other," or best option pay cash. Automatic deduction for cabbies who often tip themselves and hand you less change without asking - give me my change in full and I'll tip you, thanks. To…

>I won't default to a high tip for average service just because other people are doing it. 30% and up is a high tip. 20% is not. Life is short. Be the guy/gal who puts smiles on strangers faces. You can do this by taking care of service staff.

Every tipping thread on HN becomes an example of why the rest of the world hates the SV/startup community. You have people who likely make more in one day than the wait person will make all week arguing over whether 15% or 20% to tip. An extra $5-10 is likely pocket change for someone on HN, but could make someone in the service industry's day.

20% is the default tip for good service. 30% and above is a high tip. If you have bad service, ask to speak to a manager. I'm embarrassed by the lack of empathy shown in this thread.

Re: How Software in Half of NYC Cabs Generates $5.2M a Year in Extra Tips

#204

Post by mod »

lotharbot wrote: post #111
mod wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> some people just never tip, but they're a tiny group In my experience, they're not tiny. I'm a young male who owned and worked in my own bar in a poor area of the bible belt, so there's those caveats--but I averaged about 8% in tips over 2.5 years. My niece, on the other hand, averages over 20%. My service was in all likelihood better than hers--at the time, we had fewer customers and therefore I was literally abl…

> "I averaged about 8% in tips over 2.5 years. My niece, on the other hand, averages over 20%." Can you clarify the circumstances here, namely: - does she work in your bar? If not, how similar is the place she works (same city? Same type of neighborhood? Same type of services?) - did you work the same hours / days / crowd demographic? (There may be a difference in tipping expectations on Wednesday mid-afternoon when…

Sorry it was unclear.

Yes, same bar.

Over time our clientele has changed (we intentionally changed it, mostly via pricing and what we carried, like nixxing 'Best Ice'), however that has just led to increased sales, rather than an increased percentage for her.

My nephew also works in the bar now, and he is tipped well, though not as well as my niece. I would venture a guess that the old crowd tipped women better than men, and the new crowd tips based mostly on service.

Either way, I got the short end of that stick.

Re: How Software in Half of NYC Cabs Generates $5.2M a Year in Extra Tips

#205

Post by mod »

otoburb wrote: post #85
mod wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> some people just never tip, but they're a tiny group In my experience, they're not tiny. I'm a young male who owned and worked in my own bar in a poor area of the bible belt, so there's those caveats--but I averaged about 8% in tips over 2.5 years. My niece, on the other hand, averages over 20%. My service was in all likelihood better than hers--at the time, we had fewer customers and therefore I was literally abl…

>>My niece, on the other hand, averages over 20%. Were you able to figure out why?

I just posted more about it here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8844833

But no, just speculation.

Re: How Software in Half of NYC Cabs Generates $5.2M a Year in Extra Tips

#206

Post by mod »

acjohnson55 wrote: post #98
mod wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> some people just never tip, but they're a tiny group In my experience, they're not tiny. I'm a young male who owned and worked in my own bar in a poor area of the bible belt, so there's those caveats--but I averaged about 8% in tips over 2.5 years. My niece, on the other hand, averages over 20%. My service was in all likelihood better than hers--at the time, we had fewer customers and therefore I was literally abl…

I speculate that people are less likely to tip barstaff than waitstaff, but I don't have any sources to back that up.

In the anecdata of my family & friends who have done both, they have come to expect a higher percentage on bar tabs (~20%) than on restaurant tabs (~15%).

There's a ton of factors to consider, of course. Some people get angry when drunk, some get loose with their money, some try to impress. Some people are surprised by large bar tabs and feel cheated. And all the normal factors, like that certain groups are notoriously tight with their money.

Re: How Software in Half of NYC Cabs Generates $5.2M a Year in Extra Tips

#207

Post by johngalt »

rjbwork wrote: post #142
johngalt wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you go to a restaurant rather than buying food from a grocery store and eating at home? The service aspect is what you pay for when going out to eat vs just buying food. Tipping is about connecting the buyers and sellers of services directly. How does sending the money through a manager/owner result in better or more cost effective services?

Honestly, I go to a restaurant so I don't have to cook. If I could get top steakhouse quality (or indian, or italian, etc.) food from a counter where there's no one between me and the cook, I would, but I can't, so I don't, and I'm forced to tip someone I don't even want involved with my food in the first place.

There are places where you order from a counter and tipping is not expected. You aren't going to find 'steakhouse quality' because people who want $50 steak from a counter is small.

Re: How Software in Half of NYC Cabs Generates $5.2M a Year in Extra Tips

#208

Post by monksy »

rhino369 wrote: post #189
stevekemp wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, most people probably want to eat their meal in peace and quiet. They don't need a waiter coming over every five minutes - specifically so that you'll remember that and equate it with "attentiveness" and "great service" when it comes to time to tip.

Next time you are out at a fine dining place, which tend to be very selective about hiring wait staff, see how they do it. That's really what people want. I'm sure there is a large minority who just want to be left in peace and quiet, but you aren't the average customer. A good waitress will know when to time her visits so she isn't always there but you don't notice her absence.

For that type of waitress I will not hesitate to tip 22% or higher.

Re: How Software in Half of NYC Cabs Generates $5.2M a Year in Extra Tips

#209

Post by monksy »

jasonwocky wrote: post #182
DanBC wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally I loathe the intrusive cloying fake-friendliness of US waiters. I've had a few pretty poor[1] experiences despite not eating out that often in the US. I have eaten out in the UK considerably more often and had fewer poor experiences. maybe it's just a cultural thing?

How in the world do you know that the friendliness is fake?

Because it usually runs out pretty quick and they're a little too friendly too quickly. I.e. Tries to sit down with you and make small talk.

Re: How Software in Half of NYC Cabs Generates $5.2M a Year in Extra Tips

#210

Post by monksy »

btian wrote: post #154
monksy wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why did you even pay at all? He just completely raised the price during the transaction. On top of that, why on earth did you give 20%?

Because you may get murdered if you don't. Better get out of the situation alive

You're not going to find a lot of "gangsta" taxi drivers or taxis in Englewood, so I think you're fine.
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