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Feminist video-games talk pulled after massacre threat

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Re: Feminist video-games talk pulled after massacre threat

#201

Post by psuter »

hnha wrote: post #121
mturmon wrote: post #13

Her video series, which you can see on YouTube, is actually quite good and well-researched. You might disagree with her conclusions (I agree with them) but even if you disagree, you have to admit she's done a lot of legwork.

no, they are not. She is cherry picking examples, sometimes twisting the truth so it fits her agenda. See the Hitman example where she portrays violence against women as integral part of the game while you are in fact punished by the game for doing so. She also never properly cites research (please point me that is not true). If her videos were well researched and fair, maybe there would have never such a shitstorm.

Cherry-picking is made considerably easier by the abundance of loaded cherry trees: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5i_RPr9DwMA

    GAMES REFERENCED IN THIS EPISODE:
    Assassin’s Creed 2 (2009)
    Assassin’s Creed: Brotherhood (2010)
    Bioshock (2007)
    Bioshock 2 (2010)
    Dead Island (2011)
    Dishonored (2012)
    Dragon Age: Origins (2009)
    Fable 2 (2008)
    Far Cry 3 (2012)
    God of War 3 (2008)
    Grand Theft Auto IV (2008)
    Grand Theft Auto V (2013)
    Hitman: Absolution (2012)
    Hitman: Blood Money (2006)
    Kane & Lynch (2007)
    L.A. Noire (2011)
    Mafia II: Joe’s Adventures (2010)
    Metro: Last Light (2013)
    No More Heroes (2008)
    Papo & Yo (2012)
    Prototype (2009)
    Red Dead Redemption (2010)
    Saints Row (2006)
    Super Mario Galaxy 2 (2010)
    The Darkness II (2012)
    The Witcher (2007)
    The Witcher 2 (2011)
    Thief (2014)
    Watch Dogs (2014)

Re: Feminist video-games talk pulled after massacre threat

#202

Post by EvilTrout »

hnha wrote: post #175
comrh wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> maybe there would have never such a shitstorm. Nice. All this is totally her fault then.

Nice cherry you picked there. If you would leave a meaningful comment, I would be happy to talk. I stand by my words. Her videos are full of lies. They are on a Columbine or Jack Thomson level of "objectivity". Someone please prove me wrong about Hitman otherwise.

I watched her video that featured Hitman Absolution as well and I don't recall her saying "this is integral" to the game. It was one of many examples.

Also, to me that sounds like cherry picking -- out of literally dozens of games you are focusing on one example.

And that specific example is from a game that caused outrage before it was even released for their "sexy latex nun" trailer:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9NC-PCHp_I

Re: Feminist video-games talk pulled after massacre threat

#203

Post by CocaKoala »

kelvin0 wrote: post #14
ceejayoz wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If this threat is manufactured, well this would indeed be quite a Machiavellian PR stunt ... That's a common accusation by the GamerGate folks, but given the number of other women in the gaming arena receiving similar harassment it's pretty believable that these are real.

Notice I did not accuse her of anything, simply stating two facts. Why the down votes? All I am saying is that whoever made the threats clearly doesn't want the issue to go away ... Come on guys!

Because you're not stating facts which are relevant. You're saying "If she did [x] it would be [y]". That might be objectively true, but you're not presenting any evidence that she's doing [x] and so it doesn't matter.

It's an incredibly obnoxious thing to do, and honestly in this context it's pretty disgusting.

Re: Feminist video-games talk pulled after massacre threat

#204

Post by kelvin0 »

retrocombine wrote: post #40
kelvin0 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Notice I did not accuse her of anything, simply stating two facts. Why the down votes? All I am saying is that whoever made the threats clearly doesn't want the issue to go away ... Come on guys!

Don't simply say "why the downvotes". Back up your argument with facts and reasoning, and if you're right, it should stand on its own. If you're getting downvotes...you aren't right.

I was not trying to make a case for/against the speaker. I worked in the game industry for 7 years and the best Game Directors that headed our team were women (by a longshot too.) I do not know the speaker, and only wish her to find her way out of this mess. I did not really think such objective comments about a hypothetical situation would make me loose karma for the next 3 generations. Go forth and gameth in peace.

Re: Feminist video-games talk pulled after massacre threat

#205

Post by pessimizer »

drivingmenuts wrote: post #136
Crito wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I can't imagine attending an event where people could carry concealed weapon Have you ever been to America? If so, you have almost certainly already attended countless events where somebody in the audience had a gun. The staggering majority of the time there are no incidents, so it is easy to overlook this.

"Gun Owner Openly Carries Gun To Little League Game Without Incident" doesn't make for nearly as sensational a headline as "Thirty-Seven Massacred At Redbox Dropoff" and newspapers exist to tell us about sensational events. I won't deny that there are responsible gun owners, but they're not a problem. The problem is that any nutjob can carry a gun and by the time he or she has demonstrated working knowledge of a safe…

>"Gun Owner Openly Carries Gun To Little League Game Without Incident" doesn't make for nearly as sensational a headline as "Thirty-Seven Massacred At Redbox Dropoff" and newspapers exist to tell us about sensational events.

I wish that 'Seemingly Responsible Gun-Owning Ex-Policeman/Soldier Accidentally Leaves Gun in Movie Theater Seat' informed the debate a little more. Happened twice to me while working as a movie theater usher in Arkansas.

Re: Feminist video-games talk pulled after massacre threat

#206

Post by mitchty »

Crito wrote: post #163
opendais wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2014/06/concealed_w... http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/09/03/us-usa-guncontrol-... I'd say the lack of basic gun safety skill among concealed weapons holders is sufficient evidence to be concerned. This is just in the last 3-4 months with a quick google search. If I can't trust people with guns to reliably follow basic safety procedures [e.g. Both of these sound like someo…

Many very popular types of guns do not have "safeties" in the sense that you are likely thinking. They do not have a switch that can be toggled between "safe" and "fire". Glocks are one prominent example (they lack some sort of safety switch, although they have other sorts of safety features.) Truly mechanically induced accidents are nevertheless exceptionally rare. The guns only fire when the trigger is pulled, whic…

Another note on the glock, you have to pull the trigger to pull it apart.

All the more reason you follow the 4 rules of gun safety to a T with that brand. Especially the part about ensuring its not pointed anywhere it shouldn't be and unloaded check about a million times. (note, I own no firearms but have enough friends that do I gain a ton of knowledge on them.)

One exception to firearms going off on their own might be a misfire after trigger pull. That means you have a possibly live round in the chamber that could go off at any time. Need to be really careful on that one.

Re: Feminist video-games talk pulled after massacre threat

#207

Post by nrinaudo »

Rubix117 wrote: post #165
vlunkr wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if they aren't real at all, how is that an appropriate response?

Because lying about death threats causes more problems. I honestly can't believe people take this woman so seriously. As I have commented before she has been shown to be a liar. Nothing she says has any credibility.

I'm sorry, I've been following this story for a while and every single one of the instances where she has been accused of lying that I know of has been debunked.

I'm not calling you a liar, merely asking for you to point me to what I've been missing. I run in circles that are pretty pro-sarkeesian and may have suffered from selection bias.

Do note, however, that simply stating that she's a liar is not an actual proof of anything. I'm asking for actual articles from reputable outlets, not quotes from Guest11743 on 4chan.

Re: Feminist video-games talk pulled after massacre threat

#208

Post by CocaKoala »

kelvin0 wrote: post #68
retrocombine wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't simply say "why the downvotes". Back up your argument with facts and reasoning, and if you're right, it should stand on its own. If you're getting downvotes...you aren't right.

I know this subject is emotionally charged for most people. If you read my statements objectively I hope to help you perceive a different perspective, no need to embrace it. I wish you well.

I read your statement objectively. You said that if she had manufactured this crisis, it would be a machiavellian stunt.

Can you present even a single shred of evidence that she's manufacturing the crisis? Because until you present that evidence, you're not actually presenting facts that are relevant to the discussion. You might as well say "If she were an alien, this might be part of her plan to take over the world". It's impossible to respond to that, because while it might be true (if she were an alien, maybe you've discovered her plan!) but to the best of our knowledge, she's not an alien and hypothesizing about her motives if she were is a waste of everybody's time.

What's even worse is that you're presenting hypotheticals as facts and then pretending not to understand what you're doing and claiming that people are disagreeing with you on emotional reasons, when the only emotion they're feeling is rage that you're wasting their time. This could be an opportunity for an actual discussion and you're just chucking garbage at the wall and then asking "jeeze you guys why don't you like my garbage?"

Re: Feminist video-games talk pulled after massacre threat

#209

Post by hga »

UnoriginalGuy wrote: post #196
hga wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Great. Then the relatively physically weak, the infirm, the elderly, the women , will be at the mercy of the strong. A short look at mass shootings in Western Europe in the lat few decades, which are both more numerous and more deadly, suggests that intermediate restrictions won't do any good at best. History prior to that tells what government can easily do to disarmed untermensch . I'll take an occasional mass shoo…

> Then the relatively physically weak, the infirm, the elderly, the women, will be at the mercy of the strong. Fortunately guns aren't the only weapons. Guns are more contentious than most because it gives a single individual the power to kill many others. > A short look at mass shootings in Western Europe, which are both more numerous and more deadly, suggests that intermediate restrictions at best won't do any good…

Guns are the only effective weapons that "the infirm, the elderly, the women" can use.

The U.K. != Western Europe, and I include the massacres prior to "several years" ago; you have to since these incidents are fortunately rare. Wikipedia has done a very good job of chronicling them, although you have to look at half a dozen entries because they're broken down by things like where it happened.

"This just further proves that the very people who have guns are dangerous individuals who cannot be trusted with guns."

Well, you're welcome to try to act on your prejudices (unConstitutional ones, I might add). Those of us who've read our 20th Century history know what such actions mean, and the only practical response.

Re: Feminist video-games talk pulled after massacre threat

#210

Post by hga »

pessimizer wrote: post #205
drivingmenuts wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Gun Owner Openly Carries Gun To Little League Game Without Incident" doesn't make for nearly as sensational a headline as "Thirty-Seven Massacred At Redbox Dropoff" and newspapers exist to tell us about sensational events. I won't deny that there are responsible gun owners, but they're not a problem. The problem is that any nutjob can carry a gun and by the time he or she has demonstrated working knowledge of a safe…

>"Gun Owner Openly Carries Gun To Little League Game Without Incident" doesn't make for nearly as sensational a headline as "Thirty-Seven Massacred At Redbox Dropoff" and newspapers exist to tell us about sensational events. I wish that 'Seemingly Responsible Gun-Owning Ex-Policeman/Soldier Accidentally Leaves Gun in Movie Theater Seat' informed the debate a little more. Happened twice to me while working as a movie…

And this a great danger because ... what?

It is of course a danger, but so is crossing the street.

What did you do when you found those weapons?

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