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Nobody understands the point of hybrid cars [video]

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Re: Nobody understands the point of hybrid cars [video]

#201

Post by don_esteban »

tzs wrote: post #166
don_esteban wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Norway is not damn cold. It sits next to a warm, Gulf-stream ocean. Rarely gets much ( Finland, that's another thing.

Around 38% of new cars sales in Finland in 2025 were EVs [1], so they apparently have figured out how to make them work. PHEVs were another 20%. Gas cars were around 39%, and diesel cars were about 4%. [1] https://alternative-fuels-observatory.ec.europa.eu/general-i...

EVs work in cold weather, just the range is reduced.

If it is a second car in the family, used for short range commuting ... or if your lifestyle does not involve frequent long-distance trips, EV is perfectly suitable even in Finland.

Re: Nobody understands the point of hybrid cars [video]

#202

Post by nuancebydefault »

avgDev wrote: post #146
globular-toast wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't need any of that, obviously. It really is best to save that word and you'll better appreciate that you can have things way, way beyond what you need rather than living in this eternal state of "barely getting by". It's all in your head. It's completely up to you if you want to be rich today.

You also don't need a computer, and here you are? It is completely up to you if you want to be rich today? What kind of comment is this?

Usually when one says 'I need xxx' it is followed by 'for yyy'. It seems nothing is needed for the sake of it.

Re: Nobody understands the point of hybrid cars [video]

#204

Post by TacticalCoder »

tedggh wrote: post #50

I have all three ICE, EV and hybrid at home. I was hesitant at first when getting the EV because we already had the hybrid, but we needed a second SUV to carry kids. After two years with the EV it became evident to me the hybrid doesn’t make sense. It has some of the gas savings of an EV but you still deal with the inconvenience of maintaining a ICE. My EV has received zero maintenance other than cleaning the cameras…

> No oil change, no brake pads, no spark plugs, fuel pumps, seals, plus all the time savings scheduling appointments and driving to the dealer.

ICE here, goes to the dealership, what, once a year? 13 years in and 135 000 km done with the car (which I bought used, when it was 4 years old).

I ran the numbers yesterday: savings on gas when moving to full EV really aren't that stellar in my case (about 10 000 km/years now: I drive a bit less than I used to) and I have a gas guzzler. Electricity in my country is one of the highest in Europe.

Instead of paying, say, 2000 EUR / year in gasoline I'd pay 1 000 EUR in electricity (much more if using the pricier supercharger).

So I save 1 K EUR / year on gas. OK, but car depreciation? EV vehicles prices apparently do fall like a very hard rock.

Not only that: apparently EV prices do fall even faster than ICE and morever brand new EVs tend to be, compared to a similar brand new ICE car, more pricey. So the fall is even harder.

So as for now I'll keep the yearly dealership trip to deal with those "pesky" oil changes, spark plugs, brake pads, etc.

I mean: it's not as if since my parents (the boomers) and my grand-parents we didn't have ICE cars ownership pretty much figured out. And some of the modern ICE engines are proven to be extremely reliable (so if you DYOR you can buy a used ICE car and be pretty reasonably sure it'll be a good workhorse).

The "you'll save money" argument seems dubious. Your "no oil change" argument seems a bit light too.

I understand the "you'll save the planet" a bit more but I'm a "show me the money (savings)" person.

Re: Nobody understands the point of hybrid cars [video]

#205

Post by TacticalCoder »

tzs wrote: post #165
tedggh wrote: post #50

I have all three ICE, EV and hybrid at home. I was hesitant at first when getting the EV because we already had the hybrid, but we needed a second SUV to carry kids. After two years with the EV it became evident to me the hybrid doesn’t make sense. It has some of the gas savings of an EV but you still deal with the inconvenience of maintaining a ICE. My EV has received zero maintenance other than cleaning the cameras…

> After two years with the EV it became evident to me the hybrid doesn’t make sense In some places in the US the hybrid can have lower energy costs per mile. Using the average price/kWh of residential electricity and the average price/gallon of gasoline in each US state as of maybe a year ago (I haven't updated my spreadsheet in a while) a Toyota Prius would beat my EV (which the sticker says is 129 MPGe city, 103 MP…

> ... a Toyota Prius would beat my EV (which the sticker says is 129 MPGe city, 103 MPGe highway) on the highway in 15 states

I posted a not dissimilar comment in reply to someone else: I ran the numbers and in a country with high electricity the savings of an EV simply aren't that stellar compared to an ICE car. It's not clear at all if at the end the TCO is lower or not: basically the savings on gasoline / oil / brake pads may not be sufficient to offset the higher price and faster depreciation of the EV.

Re: Nobody understands the point of hybrid cars [video]

#206

Post by dalyons »

9x39 wrote: post #169
baq wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A Sienna does everything any SUV does the same or better, as confirmed in the video itself, change my mind?

The Sienna is a great rig but doesn’t look cool, which is rule 1 /s As long we’re talking driving on roads, the AWD Sienna is basically an SUV. It is not, however, something that speaks to guys who want a specific look or fantasy from their rig.

It also drives like shit, a giant wallowing land boat. Practical yes. But it’s not just looks.

Re: Nobody understands the point of hybrid cars [video]

#207

Post by dalyons »

wat10000 wrote: post #56
tedggh wrote: post #50

I have all three ICE, EV and hybrid at home. I was hesitant at first when getting the EV because we already had the hybrid, but we needed a second SUV to carry kids. After two years with the EV it became evident to me the hybrid doesn’t make sense. It has some of the gas savings of an EV but you still deal with the inconvenience of maintaining a ICE. My EV has received zero maintenance other than cleaning the cameras…

They made sense when batteries were so expensive that decent range was unaffordable. That era is coming to a close, though.

Yep, almost obsolete. Will be entirely obsolete once the semi solid batteries make it out of china in the next year or so

Re: Nobody understands the point of hybrid cars [video]

#208

Post by dalyons »

jeffbee wrote: post #54
chem83 wrote: post #18

I always thought the problem with hybrids was the complexity of the drive train, but this video is challenging that notion. It argues that the hybrid pack (minus the battery, perhaps?) is more compact and simpler than a manual gearbox, even. It consists of two electric motors and a planetary gear set, which is seemingly simpler than clutch packs, gear sets and belts of regular transmissions, including CVTs. Time code…

There's a lot of memes about how dumb it is to have all of the ICE moving parts, but they're just memes. We know how to make engines and they are cheap to mass produce. The complexity argument is aesthetic.

It may be aesthetic now but it will become economic soon enough. There is just no way a complicated hybrid system stays price competitive with a dumb simple electric motors and some batteries. Hybrids will end up more expensive as batteries drop rapidly in price - the gas engine and system costs are mature and thus fixed and will not decline. Batteries get substantially cheaper and better every year. Hybrids have a short economically viable window whose days are numbered (I personally think 2026 is the last year they’ll compete in many markets)

Re: Nobody understands the point of hybrid cars [video]

#209

Post by Tor3 »

tedggh wrote: post #50

I have all three ICE, EV and hybrid at home. I was hesitant at first when getting the EV because we already had the hybrid, but we needed a second SUV to carry kids. After two years with the EV it became evident to me the hybrid doesn’t make sense. It has some of the gas savings of an EV but you still deal with the inconvenience of maintaining a ICE. My EV has received zero maintenance other than cleaning the cameras…

> I do see some use cases where hybrids may actually work better, like very long daily commutes in a region lacking charging stations.

That's exactly it, and why hybrids are very common in China outside the urban areas. Here in Japan there are still a lot of hybrids, and I and my spouse drove one (a rental) for a few days, in an area just like that - no charging stations, and, as we were basically tourists, no home charging options either. It was like any other car most of the time, except for the display showing how the battery got recharged whenever braking.

The interesting part came when we were finished with the trip and, as one has to, filled up the tank to 100% on the rental.. and it was almost nothing. Just had to top it up a little bit, that was all.

Re: Nobody understands the point of hybrid cars [video]

#210

Post by Tor3 »

bluesquared wrote: post #128
MegaDeKay wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another consideration is your local climate. It can get down to -40C here. Both ICE and EVs pay a range penalty in those conditions, but it compounds the problem with charging station density that EVs have + the time it takes to charge. And at least with an ICE, all that engine heat can be put to good use trying to keep the interior warm.

The cold problems are not as overblown as most people who live outside of these environments think. Yes, for most commutes the reduction in winter (sub-freezing temperature) range when home-based charging is available is not significant. For my anecdote, my (occasional) commute distance is enough that I need to change my driving habits to have enough range/safety margin to make it back home during this cold period. I…

> ..that ICE vehicle users do not have to ever think about.

Well.. the comment you replied to said "-40C" (which is about -40F too, AFAIK), and, back in time before global warming really hit, a friend used to live and work in an area where it was -40 nearly every day, from late October till March. At least that year I visited that place. I and friends arrived at nighttime and he picked us up at the airport and brought us to where he lived. His car was a small utility car he used for work.. a diesel car. When we unpacked and went inside, he didn't turn off the engine.. when asked, he said he had done that mistake in October (this was now late February), and had to tow the car to a garage, as the diesel fuel had all turned into wax (and this was diesel with cold-weather additives). So, since then, he never turned off the engine. It ran 24/7, for months at the time.

(These days it's much much warmer there, not cold at all, so the above is an anecdote from back in the old days, by now).

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