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Nobody understands the point of hybrid cars [video]

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Re: Nobody understands the point of hybrid cars [video]

#101

Post by MegaDeKay »

tedggh wrote: post #50

I have all three ICE, EV and hybrid at home. I was hesitant at first when getting the EV because we already had the hybrid, but we needed a second SUV to carry kids. After two years with the EV it became evident to me the hybrid doesn’t make sense. It has some of the gas savings of an EV but you still deal with the inconvenience of maintaining a ICE. My EV has received zero maintenance other than cleaning the cameras…

Another consideration is your local climate. It can get down to -40C here. Both ICE and EVs pay a range penalty in those conditions, but it compounds the problem with charging station density that EVs have + the time it takes to charge. And at least with an ICE, all that engine heat can be put to good use trying to keep the interior warm.

Re: Nobody understands the point of hybrid cars [video]

#102

Post by stronglikedan »

tedggh wrote: post #50

I have all three ICE, EV and hybrid at home. I was hesitant at first when getting the EV because we already had the hybrid, but we needed a second SUV to carry kids. After two years with the EV it became evident to me the hybrid doesn’t make sense. It has some of the gas savings of an EV but you still deal with the inconvenience of maintaining a ICE. My EV has received zero maintenance other than cleaning the cameras…

Hybrids do make sense, but like everything else, for specific use cases. I do a lot of road tripping, so a hybrid is ideal. Charging is still way too slow to do multiple times per trip.

Re: Nobody understands the point of hybrid cars [video]

#103

Post by avgDev »

graemep wrote: post #76
tedggh wrote: post #50

I have all three ICE, EV and hybrid at home. I was hesitant at first when getting the EV because we already had the hybrid, but we needed a second SUV to carry kids. After two years with the EV it became evident to me the hybrid doesn’t make sense. It has some of the gas savings of an EV but you still deal with the inconvenience of maintaining a ICE. My EV has received zero maintenance other than cleaning the cameras…

How many kids do you have that you need two SUVs to carry them all? its not common.

I have 1 child and need a big car, such as Honda Pilot. We are active. We travel. My son plays sports. I need a 2 inch hitch for our heavy ebikes.

I also need 5k towing a few times a year.

I do have a 2nd economy car, and I like driving smaller cars anyway, but having one big car is nice.

Re: Nobody understands the point of hybrid cars [video]

#104

Post by cbdevidal »

My whole draw to hybrids is low overall cost and longevity. Just two days ago I bought my son a 2007 Prius with 194k miles for $6k; and three weeks ago, a 2008 with 225k miles for my sister for $2.5k. Both should last another 200k if they don’t abuse them.

And if gas goes over $6 I’m buying one for myself, too. I sleep in my car twice a week for work, and being able to run the AC on hot Florida nights will be the cherry on top.

The 2007 is like new except it’s the original battery, so son and I will swap the modules inside the battery pack in a few weeks for some refurbished modules with a warranty. Aside from the battery, the ABS pump is fragile but it is a DIY replacement if you have the time and patience.

Other than that, they just go and go and go, saving money mile after mile.

Re: Nobody understands the point of hybrid cars [video]

#105

Post by toast0 »

gregolo wrote: post #58
caminanteblanco wrote: post #46

For anyone who is concerned that this only applies to Toyota drivetrains (which was true for quite some time), Toyota made nearly all of their HEV patents (24,000 of them) completely royalty-free in 2019 [0]. At this point, I assume the only thing stopping manufacturers is their pre-existing investment in other technology. [0] https://global.toyota/en/newsroom/corporate/27512455.html

Ford Kuga (EU) / Escape (US) is built from those patents. It’s basically a copy of Toyota’s hybrid system. And it’s actually quite great, until it catches on fire.

Similarly the cmax transmission is great unless you got an early one and it bores a second output shaft from the inside (bad bearing)

Re: Nobody understands the point of hybrid cars [video]

#106

Post by enragedcacti »

treyd wrote: post #99
bee_rider wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On a completely tangential note, has anyone ever tried a hybrid that was like a diesel-electric train? The engine just charges the battery. IIRC it can be much simpler, no need for gearing at all, the engine just runs at a constant speed and the battery handles delivering variable amounts of power.

This was addressed explicitly in the video. It's far less efficient end-to-end, even though the gearing is theoretically simpler. Trains do it because diesel engines just can't produce the torque you need to move a train (at least, in the form factor of a locomotive), so they need to use electric motors.

He makes that argument but IMO it's not particularly well founded. He talks about his old Chevy Volt and guesses about the new Nissan series hybrids while ignoring Honda's current lineup of series hybrids. The Civic hybrid* meets or beats the EPA ratings on both the Corolla and Camry hybrids when on the same size wheels (18").

I agree in principal that there's efficiency to be gained by minimizing conversion losses, but Honda may be clawing that back with larger and more efficient motor-generators that only package well because no planetary gear set is required to connect everything.

* Honda hybrids do have either one or two clutches to mechanically connect the engine to the wheels at fixed ratios for highway cruising, but their city EPA numbers are still very competitive.

Re: Nobody understands the point of hybrid cars [video]

#107

Post by vel0city »

bluGill wrote: post #7
Szpadel wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm assuming that right now all valves as computer controlled so why we cannot have best of both worlds? cannot we dynamically switch between Otto and Atkinson cycles by just changing valve profiles? computer could use Otto cycle in case more power is needed in rare situations

AFAIK all values are controlled by a camshaft. The computer doesn't get enough control. Solenoids seems like that are a possible replacement for CAMs, but they apparently have too many downsides.

Koenigsegg has an engine design that has a camless valve system based on their "Freevalve" technology. Its pretty cool.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koenigsegg_TFG

Re: Nobody understands the point of hybrid cars [video]

#108

Post by jeffbee »

fhdkweig wrote: post #93
jeffbee wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a lot of memes about how dumb it is to have all of the ICE moving parts, but they're just memes. We know how to make engines and they are cheap to mass produce. The complexity argument is aesthetic.

I don't know much about cars, but I have to assume that fewer moving parts means less wear and repairs.

That's a fair assumption that doesn't prove itself in practice. In practice, a Prius engine lasts forever. Someone will jump in to complain about some anecdotal failure but the fleet statistics are strong. They even outlast other non-hybrid Toyotas. There are a lot of reasons for this but a significant one is the lack of belt-driven accessories, lack of friction clutches, and ability to avoid high-stress operation because of the electric side of the power train.

Re: Nobody understands the point of hybrid cars [video]

#109

Post by luplex »

MegaDeKay wrote: post #101
tedggh wrote: post #50

I have all three ICE, EV and hybrid at home. I was hesitant at first when getting the EV because we already had the hybrid, but we needed a second SUV to carry kids. After two years with the EV it became evident to me the hybrid doesn’t make sense. It has some of the gas savings of an EV but you still deal with the inconvenience of maintaining a ICE. My EV has received zero maintenance other than cleaning the cameras…

Another consideration is your local climate. It can get down to -40C here. Both ICE and EVs pay a range penalty in those conditions, but it compounds the problem with charging station density that EVs have + the time it takes to charge. And at least with an ICE, all that engine heat can be put to good use trying to keep the interior warm.

Having a heat pump for heating is then really important, as compared to a simple resistive heating element

Re: Nobody understands the point of hybrid cars [video]

#110

Post by vel0city »

phkahler wrote: post #67
torcete wrote: post #51

What I didn't get from the video is that there's a differential, but it is not connected to the wheels. Is there a second differential that connects MG1 to the wheels?

The planetary gear works as a differential with the Sun gear, Planet carrier, and Ring gear each connected to something. You can see how this works here: https://eahart.com/prius/psd/

That animation of the Power Split Device really helped me understand how the thing actually worked, even more than some of the physical models people show do.
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