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Dario Amodei calls OpenAI’s messaging around military deal ‘straight up lies’

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Re: Dario Amodei calls OpenAI’s messaging around military deal ‘straight up lies’

#201

Post by xvector »

neya wrote: post #141
hendzen wrote: post #92

@pg on @sama: "you could parachute him into an island full of cannibals and come back in 5 years and he'd be the king." In retrospect this quote comes across as way more foreboding given what we've learned about the scale of his ambitions and his willingness to lie and bend reality to gain power. Dario on the other hand seems to have an integrity that's particularly rare in this era. I hope he remains strong in the f…

>Dario on the other hand seems to have an integrity that's particularly rare in this era. Anthropic actually partnered up with Palantir. They are not the saints you think they are, either. We should stop worshipping people and companies and stop putting them on pedestals. Just because one party is at fault, doesn't mean the other is automatically innocent. These are all for-profit companies at play here. https://inve…

If you actually read the memo they've clearly put in strict terms with Palantir and rejected many of the false "safeguards" offered by the company

Re: Dario Amodei calls OpenAI’s messaging around military deal ‘straight up lies’

#202

Post by solenoid0937 »

BLKNSLVR wrote: post #107

Let's just not put Dario / Anthropic on an undeserved pedestal. "Well, they're not as bad as Sam / OpenAI" is not, and should not be, much of a compliment.

Could you please elaborate on why the pedestal is "undeserved" when they are willing to stick up for their principals at the expense of being designated a SCR?

Could you point me to one other $300B+ company that would be willing to do this?

Re: Dario Amodei calls OpenAI’s messaging around military deal ‘straight up lies’

#203

Post by hedora »

ExoticPearTree wrote: post #163
aardvarkr wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s a $200M contract. That’s not nothing but it’s definitely not such a huge sum for these companies at their scale when they’re spending billions on infrastructure. I’m sure anthropic has signed up more revenue this week in response to this debacle to cover it. Where they’re actually screwed is if the gov follows through and declare anthropic a supply chain risk.

That is with the Pentagon directly only. Now they will lose much more because no defense contractor, subcontractor and so on can use them for anything defense related (even if they use the model to invent a new type of screw, if that screw is going to be used in anything military). So yeah, they bet a whole lot on “look at us, we have morals”.

There's no legal basis for blocking defense contractors from using them. Trump's claiming he can do so, but the law doesn't back him up. He'll lose in any fair court, or any corrupt court that values billionaire interests over virtue signaling to the orange one (like the Supreme Court).

Also, they got a huge PR win, and jumped to #1 on the Apple App Store. Consumer market share is going to decide which of the AI companies is the market leader, not fickle government contracts.

Re: Dario Amodei calls OpenAI’s messaging around military deal ‘straight up lies’

#204

Post by solenoid0937 »

SirensOfTitan wrote: post #53

Like others have already mentioned: I think Anthropic's relationship with Palantir undermines Amodei's narrative here. It actually feels like Dario is playing Sam's game better than Sam is. Those who know better please correct me. My current understanding of Palantir (and other surveillance tech companies like Peregrine) is: 1. They facilitate the sale of data to law enforcement, enabling the government to circumvent…

They engage with Palantir for non-domestic purposes.

Re: Dario Amodei calls OpenAI’s messaging around military deal ‘straight up lies’

#205

Post by sfink »

ExoticPearTree wrote: post #159
cheema33 wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> OAI conditions were basically "DoW won't do anything which violates the rules DoW sets for itself." I believe this understanding is correct. The issue many people have these days with Dept. of War, and most of Trump admin is that they have little respect for laws. They only follow the ones they like and openly ignore the ones that are inconvenient. Dept of "War" should have zero problems agreeing to the two conditi…

[flagged]

There's a reason it's unpopular.

If your company makes an herbicide that happens to be very good at killing off anyone who drinks it at a high concentration in their water supply, you're saying that there should be no way for your company to resist being used for mass murder (including unavoidable collateral damage)?

Also, the core mission of the military is not "killing its adversaries through any means necessary". It is to defend state interests. Some people have a belief that mass killing is the best mechanism for accomplishing that. I do not agree with, nor do I want to associate with, those people. They are morally and objectively wrong. Yes, sometimes killing people is the most effective -- or more likely, the quickest -- way. In practice, it doesn't work very well. The threat of violence is much more powerful than actually committing violence. If you have to resort to the latter, you've usually screwed up and lost the chance to achieve the optimal outcome. It is true that having no restrictions whatsoever on your ability to commit violence is going to be more intimidating, but it also means that you have to maintain that threat constantly for everyone, because nobody has any other reason to give you what you want.

The actual military is not evil. Your conception of it is.

Re: Dario Amodei calls OpenAI’s messaging around military deal ‘straight up lies’

#206

Post by solenoid0937 »

galangalalgol wrote: post #196
fmajid wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or, as is likely, OpenAI models have no guardrails, Anthropic's did and the DoD was bumping into them.

Does anyone else notice claude is just plain better at reasoning? It may not just be post training guardrails. It would not surprise me of it was something anthropic couldn't simply disable. Either from reinforcement or even training corpus curation. Of all the models, claude is the only one that makes me wonder if they have figured out something beyond stochastic language generation and aren't telling anyone

I have noticed this too, despite the close benchmark results Claude just works better. It knows when to push back, it has an "agency"... there is something there that I don't see with Gemini or OpenAI's best paid models.

Re: Dario Amodei calls OpenAI’s messaging around military deal ‘straight up lies’

#207

Post by 6Az4Mj4D »

VK-pro wrote: post #7
6Az4Mj4D wrote: post #2

[flagged]

I’m skeptical of your username and the fact that you commented twice in 23 minutes, ~10 minutes apart ala the dead internet theory. But isn’t this a fairly simple statement? He hopes that the folks at OpenAI are not as gullible as the “Twitter morons.” If youve spent even a small amount of time with llms you’ll know that these security measures are just window dressing.

What are you suspicious about username?

It's a standard security practice to randomly generate usernames and so my name is like that. Account is 8 years old.

I asked as I was not clear about what Dario meant.

Re: Dario Amodei calls OpenAI’s messaging around military deal ‘straight up lies’

#208

Post by genxy »

thisisit wrote: post #186
_heimdall wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd have money on OpenAI hiding behind the "all lawful use" phrasing to claim high levels of protection. He also claimed that they would build rules into the model the DoD would use, preventing misuse. Aka he claims OpenAI will quickly solve alignment and build it right in...I wouldn't hold my breath.

Most likely scenario is that if it does something “unlawful” and found out - claim that “These machines are black boxes and they don’t know what went wrong. They will set up an investigative committee and find out.”

When shit hits the fan they are going to blame AI, but then not even use hand sanitizer. They will 100% be using OAI as a scapegoat, although I'd like to see the OAI goat stay and someone else run into the woods.

All Lawful Use is a tautology with fascists because they cannot break laws by definition.

Re: Dario Amodei calls OpenAI’s messaging around military deal ‘straight up lies’

#209

Post by SoftTalker »

throwaway290 wrote: post #168
ExoticPearTree wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Any company is free to choose its business partners and set terms to them. "Don't like our terms, don't partner with us" If government can force any private company to work specially for government then US is no better than PRC

You might want to read about the War Production Board during World War II. Established by a presidential executive order no less.

Re: Dario Amodei calls OpenAI’s messaging around military deal ‘straight up lies’

#210

Post by teruakohatu »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #200
mrandish wrote: post #57

When @sama announced within hours that OAI was replacing Anthropic with the "same conditions ", it was clear that either the DoW or OAI (or both) were fudging. DoW balked at Anthropic's conditions so OAI's agreement must have made the "conditions" basically unenforceable. And sure enough, my reading of it left the impression the OAI conditions were basically "DoW won't do anything which violates the rules DoW sets fo…

For consumer ChatGPT accounts, go to their privacy portal [1] and, first, delete your GPTs, and then, second, delete your account. [1] https://privacy.openai.com/policies?modal=take-control

Why?

If you have so little faith in them that they won’t honour the privacy controls you should also delete your non-consumer account too.

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