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Cybertruck's Many Recalls

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Re: Cybertruck's Many Recalls

#201

Post by ryzvonusef »

Peanuts99 wrote: post #187
ryzvonusef wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

exactly, Pedestrian safety of all american trucks is terrible, yet we don't hear about the big speeding wall that are the 'conventional' american truck... but apparently the cyber truck is a pedestrian predator they 'suddenly' discovered. Either do something about the terrible truck design... or shut up and tolerate the cyber truck like you tolerate the F150 EV or whatever. Fluff like this just pollutes the EV news s…

Surely the fact that it's a three ton machine that can accelerate from 0-60 in 3 seconds is relevant too. As far as I'm aware the F150 can't match that.

> Surely the fact that it's a three ton machine that can accelerate from 0-60 in 3 seconds is relevant too. As far as I'm aware the F150 can't match that.

The F150 EV has similar weight and speed[1], not sure how it's relevant?

In fact it proves the point, no one talks about how the F150 EV or the Silverado EV etc etc having similar characteristic flaws as the cyber truck, because that doesn't generate clicks.

If anything should be generating articles, it should be the Hummer EV, that things in absurdly big, heavy and fast, even for american trucks... but that doesn't generate clicks.

Cybertruck gets undue attention, mostly negative because clickbait, and we should stop clicking such obvious baits.

[1]: https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a40120063/2022-ford-f-150-...

Re: Cybertruck's Many Recalls

#202

Post by 0xEF »

johnp314 wrote: post #182
stackghost wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I wonder if you exclude "recalls" resolved by software updates, for all cars, where it would rank then? Why have you put "recalls" in quotes? It gives the impression you think this makes it somehow lesser. The cybertruck, for example, was subject to a recall because the rearview camera wouldn't come up, but the mirrors are insufficient to back the vehicle up safely without the camera. That's a safety issue, irrespec…

Well, the OED definition of 'recall' is "official order to return to a place" and a software update or fix requires no return to the place of purchase. I wonder how may legally defined 'recalls' Microsoft Windows has experienced with each new version.

I think the gist is "recall" is the same saying "safety issue that needs to be fixed in the software or hardware" since we don't have a word for software issues, which carry a bit more weight on a fly-by-wire vehicle like the Cybertruck.

Interesting to note that this thread seems to be full of a lot of people choosing to be pedantic over the word "recall" rather than taking a critical look at the Cybertruck and it's issues. While I agree that language is important (and dynamic), I suspect that discussion around this vehicle is also charged by politics and sycophantic thinking.

If I remove my personal opinions about Musk, I find that I actually do not hate the Cybertruck. Sure, I think it looks absolutely stupid and it bothers me that the flat paneling does not line up perfectly, but I am also cheering on it's attempts to break some rules, try something different and possibly spark some future innovation. With that in mind, it's easy for me to expect that it will have problems since anything new that breaks the mold tends to, so with that reframing, a lot of recalls make sense and could even be looked at as good since solutions are being developed.

Re: Cybertruck's Many Recalls

#203

Post by fnord123 »

krige wrote: post #191
jart wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not just Tesla. All the online services you depend on are run this way, and none of it's regulated. Governments don't know how to regulate software companies like Tesla. They know how to regulate people constructing homes, cooking food, and building bridges but most attempts at regulating software development have petered out. This is a good thing. Thanks to Tesla's modern approach to car manufacturing it is now…

I need to ask - is this a joke? No, Tesla is not particularly bulletproof compared to other cars. Its doors may stop a 9mm sure enough, but the windows won't manage even that, and anything above 9mm will go through the doors as well. And 9mm is not even that common among criminal shooters, they usually go for bigger calibers / higher penetration naturally already. And which Lamborghini specifically?

> And which Lamborghini specifically?

It's faster than a Lamboghini Spire.

Re: Cybertruck's Many Recalls

#204

Post by szszrk »

LeoPanthera wrote: post #4

The article notes that the most recent recall was a physical one, not a software update, and implies that that was unusual. I wonder if you exclude "recalls" resolved by software updates, for all cars, where it would rank then?

> where it would rank then?

I would rank it as "still isn't legal to import or drive in most of the Europe".

Re: Cybertruck's Many Recalls

#205

Post by justinclift »

noapologies wrote: post #100
justinclift wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why have you put "recalls" in quotes? Maybe because an over-the-air update is hard to seriously consider a "recall"?

Why? Are safety issues not "serious"?

"Recall" is wording that means (to me) the vehicle needs to be physically returned to a dealer workshop for something to be done.

That it's used for OTA updates just (to me) means they should use some more suitable wording for it. And yeah, as other people have pointed out it's the word used for the legislation. I still think they should use some kind of different wording though.

Re: Cybertruck's Many Recalls

#206

Post by alt227 »

ryzvonusef wrote: post #129
ikeamykea wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love how people who claim to not care dedicate so much time to telling everyone how much they don’t care. You could have just not posted. But clearly you do care a lot. Get help.

But I do care! I care about EVs and climate change and emission reduction and all that. What I don't care about is the Electric vehicle news feed being polluted with irrelevant nonsense when there are far more important news to be shared. I don't care about the Cybertruck's oddities... because those oddities are common to other american EV trucks and therefore bring nothing new to the table.

EVs are not a solution to climate change.

That is an industry green wash to make you buy a new car.

There are multiple other technologies which will surpass EVs efficiency, and wont require scrapping 1.5 billion existing cars or disposing of huge battery packs after 10 years.

Re: Cybertruck's Many Recalls

#207

Post by justinclift »

jmb99 wrote: post #123
Aeolun wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I completely agree, but saying it's a 'recall' when your car sits in your driveway still feels entirely wrong.

Recall is the industry-standard (and populace-understood) term for “this vehicle has a safety or reliability issue that must be resolved by the manufacturer.” It is all encompassing; anything from possibly loose lugnuts to faulty airbags to engine failures to yes, the reverse camera failing to appear. It doesn’t matter if the manufacturer ships an OTA update, shows up at your house with a loaner and a flatbed to take…

> and populace-understood

Nah, doesn't really seem like it.

Re: Cybertruck's Many Recalls

#208

Post by justinclift »

karlgkk wrote: post #128
Aeolun wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I completely agree, but saying it's a 'recall' when your car sits in your driveway still feels entirely wrong.

Sure it's wrong, but it's actually to Tesla's benefit IMO Which of these would you, a Tesla stakeholder, prefer the news to report: - Tesla Cybertruck has recall - Tesla Cybertruck receives software update that resolves issue that put public safety at risk

That's really not clear?

And for equivalence, the first would need to be:

- Tesla Cybertruck has recall that resolves issue that put public safety at risk

Re: Cybertruck's Many Recalls

#209

Post by myrmidon »

graemep wrote: post #160
imiric wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that those issues shouldn't happen on a public road vehicle to begin with. Tesla's approach is shipping beta software to customers, and using them as testers. This is an insidious practice in modern software development, but is criminal when that software is running a 3-ton vehicle, regardless if it can be fixed with an OTA update or not. There are reasons why strict car safety regulations exist. You c…

I wonder whether OTA updates being possible encourages manufacturers to be sloppy with software quality. They know they can fix problems cheaply. If they had to physically update vehicles they would have a lot more incentive to make updates unnecessary.

As an embedded software developer: 100% yes. Having a cheap OTA option will always lead to more sloppiness in development; the problem is that this makes it possible and easy to delay "features" in general when software projects are behind schedule (instead of delaying everything), these delayed features/releaes alone are then additional surface for bugs/regressions to slip through testing.

For the manufacturer this is still mainly a win I'd say... possibly even for the customer (because he gets features and fixes faster, at least), even though it sounds bad.

Re: Cybertruck's Many Recalls

#210

Post by orwin »

jart wrote: post #176
imiric wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that those issues shouldn't happen on a public road vehicle to begin with. Tesla's approach is shipping beta software to customers, and using them as testers. This is an insidious practice in modern software development, but is criminal when that software is running a 3-ton vehicle, regardless if it can be fixed with an OTA update or not. There are reasons why strict car safety regulations exist. You c…

It's not just Tesla. All the online services you depend on are run this way, and none of it's regulated. Governments don't know how to regulate software companies like Tesla. They know how to regulate people constructing homes, cooking food, and building bridges but most attempts at regulating software development have petered out. This is a good thing. Thanks to Tesla's modern approach to car manufacturing it is now…

People who have 100k to burn on a car are middle-class? What's the median yearly income in the US? 90k?
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