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“UBO Minus (MV3)” – An Experimental uBlock Origin Build for Manifest V3

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201–210 of 271 posts

Re: “UBO Minus (MV3)” – An Experimental uBlock Origin Build for Manifest V3

#201
post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't reasonable. Today on iPhone, even if you pay $100/year to be able to run unsigned code, you can't get a copy of Firefox running, because nobody maintains the port. That kind of crippling grasp on the ecosystem is difficult to tolerate, and simply nothing compared to what's going on with Google. Today with Pixel phones, you can secure boot third party OSes without even voiding your warranty. You can unlock…

Which part isn't resonable? I was proposing a thought experiment in understanding motivation and the version of the future these companies are building towards.

The reason why is because on iPhone, I can only hope and pray for things to get better, which I have been doing for three years; there aren't really any options if you don't like the intentional limitations of the iPhone. With the Pixel phone, I have options today and indefinitely, regardless of the motivations of Google. Comparing Google's motivations vs Apple's motivations is missing the bigger picture.

It's not a panacea, but it's about as close as they come.

Re: “UBO Minus (MV3)” – An Experimental uBlock Origin Build for Manifest V3

#202
post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't reasonable. Today on iPhone, even if you pay $100/year to be able to run unsigned code, you can't get a copy of Firefox running, because nobody maintains the port. That kind of crippling grasp on the ecosystem is difficult to tolerate, and simply nothing compared to what's going on with Google. Today with Pixel phones, you can secure boot third party OSes without even voiding your warranty. You can unlock…

Reading your comment, my final thought was that essentially if you want to maintain another computer, similar to your desktop, buy an Android phone. Research and install your ROM of choice, route it and install the programs you want, and you are responsible to make sure it all works. If you don’t want yet another computer to maintain consuming hours of your time, buy an iPhone. I do use Android for my streaming set t…

It's got layers of course.

If you don't mind the way the Pixel device works out of the box, then obviously it's basically on par with an iPhone in terms of ease of use and setup. They trade blows obviously, but I'd call the experience comparable. I can switch between iPhone and Pixel with absolutely no confusion.

But if you do mind the way it works, you don't necessarily have to throw out the baby with the bathwater. Sometimes, you can get the changes you want without having to do a whole lot of work. If all you want to do is sideload an APK, like the F-Droid store for example, it's some straight-forward taps. The system even guides you into it, no blatant dark patterns in my view of it. This is honestly pretty good, maybe even nicer than the modern macOS defaults!

That will get you Fennec F-Droid and uBlock Origin very easily and quickly. No developer mode. No confusing dark pattern UX. No $100/yr payments. No flashing ROMs, no rooting, nothing. Just tapping the screen a bit. Keep in mind that Android also has the intents system so many default things can be changed, not just browser or e-mail client; pretty much any action that can open a third-party app can be supported by another third-party app.

If you want to go deeper, you might root your device, install something like Xposed, or at least modify system APKs. It's not all that bad, although obviously the tradeoffs start to hit here: Safetynet no longer passes unless you bypass it somehow, OTA updates might undo some of your modifications, etc. But, it's still pretty powerful for not all that much work. Guides and tools are usually made so that moderate power users can do it. Plenty of kids do it for sure.

And finally, if you want full control over everything, you can install third-party ROMs like GrapheneOS. Honestly, sometimes this is even easier than rooting, but it does come with some downsides still (I don't believe SafetyNet would pass on most third party ROMs, although miraculously, Pixel devices do support Secure Boot with third party ROMs, which I honestly feel was a very unexpected improvement of recent years.)

Are Android phones generally less usable? I don't know. My whole family has always used Android phones and it seems fine. I do think the ecosystem of Android phones is a little weak right now, but at least we finally have CPUs that aren't so damn weak; that was one major score in favor of iPhone that was really hard to argue. They're probably still not all that close in the benchmarks, but it doesn't mater; the subjective experience is better. Android phones can finally drive high-refresh-rate displays very smoothly, and Firefox no longer feels like trying to browse the internet on a Pentium II. What I will say is that Apple has more advanced features for casual users provided that you stick to their ecosystem, but the "stick to their ecosystem" part is a hard sell for some of those features.

Re: “UBO Minus (MV3)” – An Experimental uBlock Origin Build for Manifest V3

#203
post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I spent years hoping for Apple to see the light, allow other browser engines as soon as apple tried to remove flash, they've shown their hand tbh. While it was generally considered good, the ideology behind removal of flash is the same ideology for their policy to not allow other browser engines.

Strong disagree here. Flash represented a proprietary takeover of web standards. It was bad technology with a bad license and had bad consequences. Apple’s ideology resulted in a pure gain for the open web. Apple’s dictatorial control over browser engines on iOS represents, somewhat ironically, the last significant defense in the cause of browser engine diversity. While Apple’s motives might be less pure here, the ou…

The outcomes are definitely less of a win for the open web in many cases. It is astounding that I have to deal with Apple proponents unironically trying to argue that WebM and Opus are bad things.

Of course Safari on iOS supports Opus, but it just doesn't support it in any standard container... which is one of the most pointless things I can think of.

Wikimedia doesn't care. They just load a polyfill with WebAssembly-compiled codecs for VP8/9/AV1/Opus/etc. and do it on CPU. The net effect is that iPhone users get a worse Wikipedia experience for basically no reason.

Re: “UBO Minus (MV3)” – An Experimental uBlock Origin Build for Manifest V3

#204
post #31

Tangent but let's stop referring to it as a mere ad blocker, it's a content blocker - it's even a very useful and impactful accessibility tool in that capacity. ADHD sucks and I have a lot to thank to these types of tools for acting as my "crutches" that allowed me get where I am today.

Google profits off hurting neurodivergent people (think YouTube ads, recommended videos, etc) so this is sadly consistent with their business model.

Re: “UBO Minus (MV3)” – An Experimental uBlock Origin Build for Manifest V3

#206
post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I spent years hoping for Apple to see the light, allow other browser engines as soon as apple tried to remove flash, they've shown their hand tbh. While it was generally considered good, the ideology behind removal of flash is the same ideology for their policy to not allow other browser engines.

Strong disagree here. Flash represented a proprietary takeover of web standards. It was bad technology with a bad license and had bad consequences. Apple’s ideology resulted in a pure gain for the open web. Apple’s dictatorial control over browser engines on iOS represents, somewhat ironically, the last significant defense in the cause of browser engine diversity. While Apple’s motives might be less pure here, the ou…

> it was bad technology

Was it really?

Re: “UBO Minus (MV3)” – An Experimental uBlock Origin Build for Manifest V3

#207
post #161
post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to burst your bubble but if you are leaving the Android ecosystem because of Chrome manifest v3 I definitely urge you to see what you're getting yourself into. Not only does Apple enforce that you use their browser engine, it also abuses this position to disable features that they keep enabled on desktop Safari where users have an actual browser engine choice. Also, Safari imposes limitations on extensions that a…

> I spent years hoping for Apple to see the light, allow other browser engines as soon as apple tried to remove flash, they've shown their hand tbh. While it was generally considered good, the ideology behind removal of flash is the same ideology for their policy to not allow other browser engines.

Flash was a kind of devious problem in the same way as IE was and Chrome is:

Those who depended on it got benefits while messing up the lives for everyone else.

To be fair to IE and its modern replacement Chrome, if you develop and test mostly on IE and Chrome you can make things cross browser if you put effort into it, something you couldn't with Flash.

Getting rid of Flash - whatever the reasons was - was a huge gift to the web and by extension people like me who develop on and for an open web.

Re: “UBO Minus (MV3)” – An Experimental uBlock Origin Build for Manifest V3

#208
post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that what dethroned IE is that using your monopoly to maintain a moat of bugs only works for so long. If the browser is going to continue to be developed, eventually you're going to have to fix the bugs. By then, they were competing with Chrome, which was not bug-ridden and also backed by a juggernaut. The grassroots push that dethroned Microsoft's browser was Google's browser (aided by Firefox's suicide.)

The only thing that ever gets mass migration is substantial superiority in features they use. Originally, it was tabbed browsing, which Opera and Mozilla had ~5 years before IE. Yes, Microsoft sucked that much in those days. With Chrome, it was an embedded PDF viewer and V8 performance. So essentially, mostly people don't switch browsers unless there's a very good reason to do so.

This comment is perhaps the most accurate take on the fall of IE.

Firefox dethroned IE not because it was "MuH fReE oPeN sOuRcE sOfTwArE" or "MuH nEtScApE", it was because Firefox was superior to IE in performance and feature set. It was better than IE at being practical and enabling users to do things they needed or wanted to do.

Shortly after, Chrome rolled around and it was superior in performance (RAM hogginess aside) and feature set (for Joe Average, not necessarily power users) to Firefox and dethroned the dethroner.

Firefox will not be a dethroner again, because Firefox is not superior to Chrome. In fact, it's inferior to Chrome: It's been a third-rate Chrome ripoff for at least the last 10 years. None of the Chromium forks will dethrone Chrome either, because they are also third-rate Chrome ripoffs by their very nature.

It is conceivable that some browser superior to Chrome will eventually come out and dethrone it, but that's probably still a long ways away and I would argue the challenge of dethroning Chrome is several orders of magnitudes harder than dethroning IE ever was.

Re: “UBO Minus (MV3)” – An Experimental uBlock Origin Build for Manifest V3

#209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMO Firefox on an Android is better than anything you can get on iOS. It fully supports uBlock Origin! I also use a Pixel phone, though I use LineageOS so I feel less tied to Google

I find Firefox on Android to completely unusable for many of the sites I visit because it doesn't support the Google Translate plugin for some completely idiotic reason. I can only use it on sites that are in English. For everything else, I have to use Chrome.

You can enable translation on Firefox Nightly - I blogged about this (and other) extensions: https://www.quippd.com/writing/2022/01/26/most-wanted-add-on...

Re: “UBO Minus (MV3)” – An Experimental uBlock Origin Build for Manifest V3

#210
post #156
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was fully in the Google world prior to gorhill's posts on manifest v3 as a direct result the only thing I have left is a pixel phone, which will be going with the new iPhone (and in the meantime my entire family has been 'helpfully' migrated too) I may be up the extreme end of the distribution, but this sort of grassroots push is what dethroned IE, and the resultant loss of control of the web eliminated Microsoft's…

Not to burst your bubble but if you are leaving the Android ecosystem because of Chrome manifest v3 I definitely urge you to see what you're getting yourself into. Not only does Apple enforce that you use their browser engine, it also abuses this position to disable features that they keep enabled on desktop Safari where users have an actual browser engine choice. Also, Safari imposes limitations on extensions that a…

> proper WebM and Opus support

It’s worth noting that from Safari 14.1 on macOS 11.3 and from Safari 16 on all macOS they do support WebM fully. (Source: https://caniuse.com/webm.) Still not on iOS, and still no Opus outside of CAF packaging, but one can continue to hope.

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